Thoughtful Posting

POGS you make a good point - sorry, I probably should have resisted my wind up comment to jings, but felt the need to show I am not going to be put down by her 'robust banter'. Thank you for calling us back to the original line of debate.

As the most 'offending' - or perhaps offensive - newbie, what prompted me to start this thread is the amount of emails I received from others who are indeed 'lurking' and / or aggrieved. Some of them have been on the sidelines for a long time and would appear as new posters if they felt they were not going to be met with rudeness. So, there are many people who are not contributing to this 'vibrant' community who would bring warmth, eloquence and wit to it, but have either posted once or twice and been 'burned' or are simply too dismayed by what they see to take the risk. I am troubled by that and I would have hoped that when other people realise that is the case they would want to respond with kindness, not defensiveness or aggression.

Further - to suggest I have to 'earn' a right to give my point of view on a public forum is ridiculous.

My this thread is growing quickly!

I started GN a few years ago but gave up as it was becoming increasingly bitchy which became very predictable.
At present the tone isn't as bad, with a few exceptions.

I think a ding dong is probably to be expected when discussing politics but not appropriate if someone is genuinely worried or upset about a personal issue. It can't be easy to open up to a whole forum, not something I could do. So they deserve to be treated with some respect in my opinion.

The thought of all these PMs flying backwards and forwards is downright scary!

I could start a thread that would be deleted. Evil

Imperfect27. Do you "know" any of the posters that have pmed you about this subject?

There are plenty of non-controversial threads people can post on without fear of someone arguing with them. I'd say most threads are like that and only a minority contain robustness of opinion. So I don't really understand what the complaint about feeling aggrieved and just lurking. Not that there's anything wrong with lurking if that's what you prefer.

imperfect, posts by you that I have read are neither offensive nor offending so I think you are mistaken to characterise yourself in that way.

Why are all these people who've posted once and 'been shot down' or have never dared to post at all still reading Gransnet? I'd have thought that once they'd decided it wasn't for them, they'd move on and look for a more congenial (for them) site.

Instead of which they seem to be lurking and picking up on any hint of upset by a newcomer, whether justified or not, and sending PMs of commiseration and telling their own tales of woe. Very odd.

No obieone, not person to person -just through the PM system.

Imperfect ". . . to suggest I have to 'earn' a right to give my point of view on a public forum is ridiculous."

There have been cases of people whose only reason to join the forum, and whose only contribution, on any threads, right from the first, has been to criticise and attack in a most sarcastic and aggressive manner. I could name three or four who just dripped sarcasm on the other posters about their opinions and lack of understanding or mental ability , and were eventually banned by GNHQ. There have also been others who started too sweet to be believed, but sent most abusive PMs to anyone who didn't agree with them.

I am not for a moment suggesting that you would do any such horrible thing - but a new name posting criticism (not just opinion but criticism) right from the start does set backs up, quite understandably. It is human nature not to like it.

Perhaps it is an initiation rite to survive a bit of initial resistance? The forum is most supportive of anyone with questions or problems.

I meant do you know any of them from Facebook, or another internet site, or in real life.

With few exceptions, I think that sending a PM to a poster on a robust discussion is rather sneaky and is tantamount to behind the back tittle tattle. If it is to sympathise over an attack perhaps it can be comforting, but as a rule, I think apologies and/or explanations are best posted on the relevant forum for all contributors to see. If an attack is especially personal or nasty then report it to HQ.

Thanks thatbags. I was using the terms ironically as others here have suggested that as a newbie, I or anyone else, shouldn't presume to post anything critical. I have not been critical for the sake of it - I have simply tried to be constructive.

In my experience the majority of GN posters are absolutely lovely and I have enjoyed posting and valued advice / alternative opinions I have been given, even when misunderstandings have occurred.

NannyandGramps said early on in the thread that we don't always know what people's needs are when they post and that is true. However, I am not advocating 'treading on eggshells' or 'navel-gazing' to a point where all spontaneity is driven out. Neither would I want to lose the entertaining element of those who do know each other well and enjoy a good wind up. All I am saying is that IF we are aware that someone is likely to have posted in distress, or if in doubt, we should take care.

It is bewildering to quite a few that some people can be pointedly and unnecessarily unkind.

Gransnet is a bit like a Curry House.

it has rats and cockroaches Anya ?

Before anyone shoots me.... I meant that in a humourous way

Thank you for your post Imperfect - I too share the view that robust discussion need not entail unkindness or rudeness; passion and depth of feeling but not rudeness, and in some cases sheer unkindness. But there are those who love it, and the best way forward is to ignore them. There are some posters whom I automatically ignore; and I latch on to those posters who I know will have a polite and useful debate.

It used to be mainly the case in debates about religion and politics; but recently there have been some very insensitive posts in response to an OP who is in some distress - I cannot find that acceptable at all - and to be honest find it quite shocking.

But I am afraid that you will find yourself banging your head against a brick wall Imperfect as there are those who thrive on rudeness and on being provocative, for reasons that escape me. Maybe we have to assume that being able to do this online might have some positive value as it stops them doing it to their nearest and dearest.

GillT57 people have posted in kindness and yes, supportively, but not to 'have a bitch' about anyone. The main points they have made are 'don't be put off' or 'I think you were misunderstood'. However, some have said they have been pout off posting for good by the cut and thrust of some debates. Others have said 'persevere', but learn to keep your head down'. However, there has been a common thread of people having been hurt - no lengthy airing of grievances, just an acknowledgement from some - and some people saying they do not post because -as we all know - some responses can be very harsh.

I explained earlier why I think a PM can be a good idea and that this can take account of alternative views without publicly making anyone on either side feel got at - I think you and I just see this differently. to me there has been nothing 'sneaky' at all.

Obieone No, I have never had any other contact with any of the people who have PMd me and none of them has known that I would speak up today - none of them asked me to. I just felt moved to say something as it does seem unfortunate that people are put off contributing and gaining more for avoidable reasons.

NanaandGrampy .

No, I meant that there's something on the menu for most tastes from Vindaloo to Korma, from hot and feisty to mild and creamy. And if you don't like curry then there's other places to eat.

She means we're all hot and delicious.

Don't you anya?

Anya - very true ! although i do think some of those near me have rats and cockroaches too ! I now make a mean Chicken Pathia at home

You're certainly hot jingl

Also, on the theme of food, sometimes people really do take everything in the wrong way.

Sort of the difference between

"Let's eat Grandma"

And

"Let's eat, Grandma"

See other thread. While I find somewhere to hide.

LullyDully I joined when GN started but didn't continue for the same reasons as yourself. I returned fairly recently because I 'lurked' and decided it was improved.
Luckylegs you have echoed many of my thoughts.

I have little recollection of who joined in the beginning but regard that as irrelevant since every time someone joins then the dynamic changes with their input which makes it interesting. As a child I moved many times to new schools and had to fight for 'my place' but as GN is not face to face it is not as 'red in tooth and claw' and on the whole we are grown ups, albeit with a lifetime of 'tender spots' which others don't see.
Perhaps I have lived a sheltered life in some respects as I find some of the comments and banter quite startling because that is not the sort of terminology or exchanges to which I am accustomed and I doubt I am alone in that. That does not mean that I am not aware how others live and this forum helps to inform and keep us in touch with the world since we all cannot help but bring who and what we are with us wherever we go.

I think that Imperfect makes valid points for life as well as GN which some may not even have thought about and I think her motivation was top notch and certainly not 'imperfect'.

It is an art to convey thoughts well by using the written word but then it is equally so to read it well and 'see' what isn't there but is hiding behind that which is.
There are some lovely people on here. Many have made me smile and some even make me have a really good laugh, I have even shed tears and I have also felt humbled by some who have such sensitivity to others and been impressed by those sharing a wealth of experience. It is a good resource and a rich tapestry which we can all enjoy if we approach it in the right way and make allowances for each other.

I'd no idea you were afraid of me held me in such high esteem jingl .

Where's Jings other thread gone?