Woman's Hour

I know that rosequartz but if at no stage in their school career has any attempt been made to sell those subjects to girls there is not a lot of prospect they will take an interest. In India vast numbers of women obtain qualifications in programming. I have sited through thousands of CVs of software engineers and I'd estimate about 2% are from women and most of them are Indian.

And I'd invite you jingle to stand outside the engineering department of any university. I think you'll notice something of a gender imbalance.

You radical feminist do absolutely nothing for women,I'm the one who's jumping mad now.
A person today,I repeat,be he male or be she female,can do what ever they want.They need ability,capability and determination.You people telling a woman she can't because she's female are wrong,very wrong.

And presumably JessM,those male people at engineering dept,are there because they want to be.Maybe most female people have no interest in engineering.Are you saying they must be forced into it? And please don't say they don't have the same opportunities.You must know that is wrong.

Don't get where you're coming from marmark.
First, I don't see anyone here pushing a 'radical feminist' agenda.
Second, it's a bit naive to say that anyone can do anything.
Of course they can if they have the qualities you point out plus other advantages like encouragement, educational opportunity, possibly financial backing .
Anyone can find him/herself disadvantaged however and may need people to keep pushing for equal opportunities for everyone - much as you're seeing here.
Please point out a post where someone simply says 'you can't do that because you're a girl,'.
It's not that black and white.

Sorry to disagree Marmark1

Theoretically you are correct and in certain jobs women can progress as quickly as men, should they so wish, and things are getting easier. But there comes a level, above which it does become much harder for woman to break into male dominated top positions. Yes, the glass ceiling does still exist, kept firmly in place by the dinosaurs who live it the canopy.

Women are generally not encouraged into careers such as engineering and this starts at a very early age. It's not a matter of 'discouraging' them, or that they 'have no interest' but families, society, the education system all have a part to play.

The same was true of careers like medicine where mainly men became doctors and women nurses. Happily, that situation does not exist anymore but it took many brave pioneers and a change in society before this was achieved.,

I'm bemused by the views expressed here I honestly thought that the vast majority of women, and certainly those of my generation, would define themselves as feminists. Surely feminism is just the belief that women should be equal to men in all areas - economic, political, cultural, etc, etc - and a feminist would support initiatives to end gender inequality. To the benefit of men as well as women. It's not about stopping women baking, or men engineering. It's about giving everybody equal opportunities to do what they want. And of course men can be feminists too.

I haven't listened to Woman's Hour for years, so can't comment on that specifically.

Maggie I think the term is still used in a derogatory manner by some men and women, especially some much older women.

I am confused, Marmark, by your post. In one sentence you say "You radical feminist do absolutely nothing for women" and in the next "You people telling a woman she can't because she's female are wrong,very wrong."

Contradiction?

Plus, while it is true that a woman can do anything she chooses, she still needs more balls than a man to carry that through to the top - and then she is accused of "losing her feminity" and being a dyke.

I agree with Anya and her last two posts here.When my DH did his engineering degree at Uni ( way back when) there were no women at all in the group.When my DD's were teenagers we only knew one of their friends who was determined to do an engineering degree, she was scarily intelligent and also feisty, but she had to contend with a lot of general discouragement and merriment about her choice of subject.Have no idea what things are like now, but suspect it may not be much better, and the girl herself has to be determined to do it. There are still far far more people doing arts degrees, they seem to be steered into it.

I should have inserted "more balls than a man of equivalent ability"

Question for everyone. Do you support the action taken by two women against imposing tax on sanitary products who appeared on/in the media 'free bleeding' in white jeans?

There are various ways of expressing feminist credentials and it's the strident/in your face methods that I cannot stand. Many women are working quietly effecting changes in their own spheres of influence at grass roots level. That's where change has to begin. I'm also puzzled as to why the trickle down effect from us to our dd and dgd hasn't seemed to have had a more significant impact in terms of career choices. Have we failed?

I do agree with that tactic as it gives a very real visual example (which it is less possible to ignore) of what happens when women can't afford any, or adequate, sanitary protection. This is apparently a problem when families are suffering severe financial hardship.

I don't think I would have had the guts to do it myself though.

Not being able to afford sanitary protection is one thing, but as a box of 32 tampons costs around £2.00 of which the VAT element is 10p most women would only save £1.20 a year if the VAT was abolished.

Just had a quick look online and Tesco sell 20 tampons for 88p and Asda for £1.00. Hardly a huge vat saving were it to be removed.

I found the 'free bleeding' action quite off putting. Many others I know were disgusted or even repulsed. I think it may have the opposite effect to the one intended and this is where extreme actions of any 'ism' can backfire.

I think it is as much the principle that is important as the amount saved by abolishing VAT on sanitary protection.

We once had some young Russian girls staying with us and they brought their own sanitary protection - pieces of rags.
I think they rinsed them out after use , maybe burnt them on the fire. We used to burn used sanitary towels.

Here's an interesting link about efforts to increase girls participation in STEM subjects
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/secondaryeducation/12001536/Meet-the-engineer-inspiring-young-women-to-enter-STEM.html

There is a huge menstrual taboo in this country which means that women feel obliged to go to some lengths to conceal the fact that they are menstruating. It would be unusual for instance for someone to have a box of tampons on their desk in the office.
I think anyone who is brave enough to challenge such taboos is very brave.

We also have a taboo about adults messing themselves in public. Do we challenge that as well or are some things better kept to ourselves? We all know that menstruation happens - I don't think we need a socking great arrow pointing to it.

I agree Katek. And I don't think the aim of the women concerned was to challenge any taboos, they were just using shock tactics to make their point.

It might have had some relevance if they were campaigning for sanitary protection to be provided free to all women...

True Ana. As they say, pick your battles.

I'm a feminist, but am also a squeamish ninny, so don't care for graphic protests such as this one. And really, I think we should choose our battles. Men and hairy women have to pay standard VAT on razor blades, after all.

Is there VAT on loo rolls (everybody), X boxes (boys), make- up (women)? VAT is something else not dependent on gender.

Yes women can in theory do any job etc, but there is still sexism and inequality and this is what today's feminists are challenging. Those women mentioned by the OP who campaigned for women on banknotes etc received rape and death threats online, because they are women, is that ok or shouldn't we challenge this? There was an interesting video posted on line recently of a woman walking down a street in daylight hours, dressed in jeans and a jumper being harassed and leered at, followed, and had suggestive remarks made to her. Surely we should be challenging this? It's not acceptable and men can learn to behave differently...it's not just good enough to say it's "biological", Some remarks on here sound like they are out of the 1950s. Surely anyone who believes in equality is a "feminist"? That's men as well as women.

BTW men's razors are tax free as the are deemed " necessities , unlike sanitary towels which are " luxuries"