Equality for fathers?

nina wouldn't it be nice if all couples could sort everything by mutual agreement? All the nastiness impacts on the children. Our DiL bad mouths us to the children and says we are telling lies when we are not. This confuses them and they ask me or DS if what she says is true. Now they are learning that their mother tells lies simply because they see that what she says is not true. She is not damaging their relationship with us but with herself which is such a shame for them. If she would only think how it all impacts on them instead of only thinking of herself life for them would be better and that is all that matters.

It was by mutual agreement Nonnie She went to the CSA when the DGC were living with her as he didn't think what she was asking was fair. They gave him an order to pay more than the amount he was contesting
I'm not saying the amount she pays isn't fair. Just that he's making trouble by kicking up a fuss. She is paid 4 weekly and he wants his money the same day each month, even though he doesn't really need it. He also asked for extra for school uniforms last month.

G2213 There already is a Minister for women so it is only fair to have one for men. Like so many 'minority groups' women have, rightly, made a lot of noise over many years and now it seems that their voice is heard above men. No equality there. The presumption that the mother is always the best person for the children to live with seems to me to be illogical.

nina is that with the mother's agreement or was it a court decision? It is fairly easy to calculate fair maintenance just look at the CSA website and their is a calculator. Doing that takes it away from the individuals concerned and should stop any acrimony but I have seen an email from one woman demanding that her ex should pay half of all her bills!

My DGC are living with their father (he wouldn't let them live with DD and new partner)
He earns three times more than her as she only works P/T but he is happy to take maintenance from her and to kick up a right fuss if she is a day or two late.
I agree it's only fair to have a Minister for men and one for women

Britain has a Dickensian legacy when it comes to repeatedly failing children, exacerbated by the deification of mothers.

I think this is true. However the key words are failing children not only by fathers but also by mothers. My DS and many of his friends have had their access to children restricted by vindictive mothers though I also know of one mother who has suffered similarly from a vindictive father who will not allow her any access (despite court rulings). Violence to fathers does occur. I have seen the evidence and also it is not reported for the sake of the children.

soontobe Many women can look after children (part time or full time) because of maintenance payments from good fathers. How often do fathers receive maintenance from mothers so they can look after their children? However I do agree that Fathers4Justice have not done themselves any favours in the past.

I don't think courts have any real power. What are they going to do if access is denied? Fine the mother/father who have limited money and can't pay? Imprison them - great for the children! It just drags on for years and costs are ridiculous. The terrible effect on the children is what matters at the end of the day.

A Minister for Women, A Minister for Men and Boys? Where's the equality in that? Why not a Minister for Parents and Children? I don't hold out much hope for any of them.

soon I am sure you are right about that. It is more often that women work part time to look after the children but these days it should be a joint decision who does what. Our lives have certainly become more balanced since we retired. I remember when we went to work together, came home together and Mr N sat and read the paper while I cooked the meal. Today expectations are rather different! None of my DiLs does ironing for example, all DSs do!

As a guess, more women than men look after children part time.

There are a lot of women still, in my limited experience who look after children full time.
Men looking after children full time are still thin on the ground.
Not saying though that all families or men or women or situations are the same.

soon I think mumsnet and F4J are as bad as each other on this subject!

I think that when men and women both work full time men do have as much time for the children. When my DGCs were young DS took them to a nursery near where he worked, drove them home, gave them their dinner and they were ready for bed when DiL came in. I think it is very different not. He was also the one who took time off when they were ill.

Youngest DS has no children but did everything round the house when his DW was doing her degree part time and then it was the other way round when he did his.

I think it is completely unfair that we still have a Minister for Women and no one to stand up for men. They do seem to get a raw deal in the Family Courts although I don't have any personal experience.

I think Fathers4justice and mumsnet have clashed on occasions? And members of Fathers4justice regularly trolled it?

I am so glad that Fathers4Justice are finally getting their act together.

If they have now got new leadership, I think they should change their name, as their name will hinder them greatly in my opinion.

This next bit may be a bit more controversial. Have men got as much time to put to their children as women have? Even in 2015? I dont know what the figures are as regards male working hours and women working hours. And I dont have time to google it currently.
Not that men couldnt or wouldnt change their work patterns.

It is really interesting that only 2 have posted on this. It talks about Mumsnet and I was hoping someone could tell me if what is said is true.

Not as far as I know grumppa but I think it is appalling and I support the wider issue.

Last week when those two women won their case against their ex husbands I read and heard a lot about it but only saw one reference to it applying to both men and women. Mostly it was more men bashing. I think we need a Minister for men and boys. F4J does not want men to get special treatment, wants all parents to be treated equally.

The story is dated 24 August; has there been a response from Greenwich Council/the ASA?

That poster is so wrong , it should be removed from every bill board , not every father is a bad father and not every mother is a perfect mother

Bumped because I think it matters!