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Spotted this taken from BBC news webpage

(113 Posts)
12Michael Mon 05-Oct-15 07:21:18

Ministers should waste no time to make unpopular cuts to pensioner benefits, a think tank director has said.

Many of those hit by a cut to the winter fuel allowance might "not be around" at the next election, said Alex Wild of the Taxpayers' Alliance.

And others would forget which party had done it, he added.

At the group's meeting at the Conservative conference in Manchester, former defence secretary Liam Fox said spending cuts must be "for keeps".

Mr Wild said the Tories could not wait until a year before the next election to make the necessary cuts to the winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, the Christmas bonus and other pensioner benefits.


The cuts should be made "as soon as possible after an election for two reasons", said Mr Wild.

"The first of which will sound a little bit morbid - some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election. So that's just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then."

He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'

"So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately. That might be one of those things I regret saying in later life but that would be my practical advice to the government."

'Day of reckoning'

Mr Fox told the meeting that the government had to act now to make further cuts to pensioner benefits and welfare.

He said "we can never go back" to the "historically high" levels of public spending seen in recent years and the government's public spending cuts must be "for keeps".

"This is the time to fix the roof" he said.

"We have a broken opposition. We have just won a general election and we need now to take the tough decisions we believe are right."

Now that Labour was not such a "great threat", this was a "great opportunity for us to do some of the more difficult things, however unpalatable they will be in the short term are what we need to do for the country", said the right-wing backbencher.

He added: "We need to do what we all know deep in our hearts to be right."

Liam FoxImage copyright Conservative Party
Image caption
Former defence secretary Liam Fox said the government had to make further cuts

Mr Fox added that the government had to make the "moral" case for reducing public spending further.

"We are borrowing from the next generation to spend today. That is otherwise known as a Ponzi scheme," he said.

"It's what we are operating as a national financial policy."

He added: "If you continue to overspend there will be a day of reckoning."

He said this was because borrowing costs would rise and the era of low inflation would not last forever, meaning economic growth on its own was not enough to balance the books.

Older people would understand the need for cuts to their benefits to help the next generation, he suggested.

"We have got to start to get really honest with people because this is not a sustainable position," he said.

"We can't afford it now, we can't afford it in the future, why don't we try to get a longer-term plan put in place so that people can make the adjustments they will need to make for us to be able to get back into balance."

Elrel Fri 09-Oct-15 23:18:30

But a plank with (of?) a platform who, I suspect, hopes to rise in his party. Someone to keep an eye on I think, sadly I don't think he's finished yet.

auntbett Thu 08-Oct-15 14:54:54

I suppose we were all younger and more stupid at one time. He is just a plank.

Elrel Thu 08-Oct-15 00:46:55

Absolutely, Jude. Age UK, The Mature Times and various daily papers have all drawn attention to the heartless young man's dismissive attitude to older people. No real reaction from the conference he was speaking at or from whoever employs him at the Taxpayers' Alliance.

Sillynanny65 Wed 07-Oct-15 00:05:13

AdeleJay I agree with everything you said, well done!

Judthepud2 Tue 06-Oct-15 22:57:59

My outrage is not at the "fact" of benefits being cut or not. It is at the particular attitude towards older people being articulated. This is not being challenged enough. Most of these disrespectful people will be old and vulnerable some day! They seem to forget that. It is the discourse of post 65s being freeloaders that enrages me!

Elrel Tue 06-Oct-15 19:50:58

Wish I'd kept notes a few days ago. I'm looking in vain for the thread about older couples without grandchildren wanting an organisation. Browsing Mature Times to my surprise I discovered that there is one, sort of!
AWOC is a voluntary organisation and if the people who listed are still around they can contact via awoc.org
The email is: ageingwithoutchildre[email protected]

The MT article has quotes such as 'My friends constantly talk about their grandchildren, it gets very wearing.'
'I felt excluded because I wasn't a mum and now I feel excluded because I don't have grandchildren.'
'Everyone assumes I have grandchildren. It's upsetting to keep saying I don't especially when the first reaction is 'Oh, poor you''

Are we really that bad?!

rosequartz Tue 06-Oct-15 19:39:00

Perhaps that little twerp from the Non-Thinking Tank is reading this?

I do hope so.

rosequartz Tue 06-Oct-15 19:38:16

Oh FFF**F as they said in FWAAF!

Ana Tue 06-Oct-15 19:35:15

Well, as someone on here said she liked the idea of Gransnet being the 'go to' site of the media, perhaps it's someone from the DM? grin

(Or the Guardian, of course...)

rosequartz Tue 06-Oct-15 19:30:01

^ Remember we used to have someone on here who kept notes about us?^

What? shock
Another Gnetter or someone from the Government?

Maggiemaybe Tue 06-Oct-15 19:05:52

Oh damn, how unfortunate, but I fully understand! smile

Nonnie Tue 06-Oct-15 18:49:42

Can't Maggie It wouldn't be kind.

Maggiemaybe Tue 06-Oct-15 18:27:37

Who was keeping notes? Do tell! grin

Maggiemaybe Tue 06-Oct-15 18:21:01

I think most of the comments on this thread, or the earlier ones at least, are expressing outrage at the advice to government re pushing through reforms to pensions/pensioners' "perks" now, as many pensioners will be dead before the next election or unable to remember who was behind the reforms.

I for one am not working myself up into a frenzy about something that will not happen. I am just annoyed about the cynical and disparaging remarks that were made.

Elrel Tue 06-Oct-15 18:20:40

Maybe irrationally I still feel deeply and personally offended at what Alex Wild of the Taxpayers' Alliance is reported to have said in a fringe meeting at the Tory Conference. As I understand it he said why not cut pensioners' benefits now as by the next general election we will either have died or forgotten about the cuts. Nasty and callous. I hope he sinks without trace in politics.

Nonnie Tue 06-Oct-15 18:09:11

Read it DJ and your point is? Presumably it relates to something I said or did it come out of thin air?

whitewave Tue 06-Oct-15 18:07:05

Of course undoubtedly the Tories may well decide that they are not prepared to take on the pensioners, particularly if the economy which is extremely fragile goes pearshaped, but we know that so often these issues are brought to the table, the argument is "well it is only an argument/idea and then , disaster, it is in the next/future budget. Keeping quiet about these things is not the answer.

Ana Tue 06-Oct-15 18:04:51

Yes, I do, Nonnie. I wonder what happened to that notebook...

durhamjen Tue 06-Oct-15 18:00:48

Read the OP, Nonnie.

Nonnie Tue 06-Oct-15 18:00:13

Ana if we believed everything which is 'talked about' we would be very confused. Perhaps we should make notes and remind people in a couple of years time of what they said? Remember we used to have someone on here who kept notes about us?

Nonnie Tue 06-Oct-15 17:57:42

durham what? How did you get to that? This is what makes some of the comments on the forums so ridiculous. When people 'interpret' what we say and come to their own conclusions and decide they know what someone else thinks. I despair of having any sort of reasonable adult debate. sad

Ana Tue 06-Oct-15 17:55:43

So 'talked about' means it's definitely going to happen, does it?

durhamjen Tue 06-Oct-15 17:53:44

Nonnie, it is a fact that these ideas were talked about by Tories in fringe meetings. Or are you saying you know differently?

whitewave Tue 06-Oct-15 17:46:54

That is the whole point rose the fact is that the Tories are talking about pensions in fringe meetings - the idea is on the table. Look at Fox's comments saying that pensions should not have been ring fenced, I am sure that he is not the only Tory who would argue this.

Nonnie Tue 06-Oct-15 17:37:12

Oh no Whitewave self preservation stops me from saying but most intelligent people will have seen them.