It makes me furious when I read that Fox suggests cuts should be made now after the Tory election win rather than later as we're senile so will have forgotten which government was responsible. Or better still, we'll be dead anyway..?
I still can't figure out why the Tories gained a majority. I was hoping for another coalition so they could do less harm. I have no faith whatsoever in the political class - whatever their persuasion. I don't think that most of them have a clue about living on less. They see no harm in cutting tax credits for individuals and families on low pay because they all earn high salaries and have 11% pay rises, or they'll fiddle expenses. Outrageous.
As for me, having contributed to the economy all my working life, paying taxes and National Insurance, I would like it to be recognised that benefits paid to me have been earned over a lifetime and are not a handout. And we are still helping our children and grandchildren by providing free childcare and often some financial assistance too. Where is the respect and care we deserve? And remember many of us with occupational pensions still pay taxes.
Sorry, end of rant....
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Spotted this taken from BBC news webpage
(113 Posts)Ministers should waste no time to make unpopular cuts to pensioner benefits, a think tank director has said.
Many of those hit by a cut to the winter fuel allowance might "not be around" at the next election, said Alex Wild of the Taxpayers' Alliance.
And others would forget which party had done it, he added.
At the group's meeting at the Conservative conference in Manchester, former defence secretary Liam Fox said spending cuts must be "for keeps".
Mr Wild said the Tories could not wait until a year before the next election to make the necessary cuts to the winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, the Christmas bonus and other pensioner benefits.
The cuts should be made "as soon as possible after an election for two reasons", said Mr Wild.
"The first of which will sound a little bit morbid - some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election. So that's just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then."
He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'
"So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately. That might be one of those things I regret saying in later life but that would be my practical advice to the government."
'Day of reckoning'
Mr Fox told the meeting that the government had to act now to make further cuts to pensioner benefits and welfare.
He said "we can never go back" to the "historically high" levels of public spending seen in recent years and the government's public spending cuts must be "for keeps".
"This is the time to fix the roof" he said.
"We have a broken opposition. We have just won a general election and we need now to take the tough decisions we believe are right."
Now that Labour was not such a "great threat", this was a "great opportunity for us to do some of the more difficult things, however unpalatable they will be in the short term are what we need to do for the country", said the right-wing backbencher.
He added: "We need to do what we all know deep in our hearts to be right."
Liam FoxImage copyright Conservative Party
Image caption
Former defence secretary Liam Fox said the government had to make further cuts
Mr Fox added that the government had to make the "moral" case for reducing public spending further.
"We are borrowing from the next generation to spend today. That is otherwise known as a Ponzi scheme," he said.
"It's what we are operating as a national financial policy."
He added: "If you continue to overspend there will be a day of reckoning."
He said this was because borrowing costs would rise and the era of low inflation would not last forever, meaning economic growth on its own was not enough to balance the books.
Older people would understand the need for cuts to their benefits to help the next generation, he suggested.
"We have got to start to get really honest with people because this is not a sustainable position," he said.
"We can't afford it now, we can't afford it in the future, why don't we try to get a longer-term plan put in place so that people can make the adjustments they will need to make for us to be able to get back into balance."
With our fuel bill being some £1200 I dont think £200 between us is sensible, scrap the fuel allowance and put the money on basic pension! I like my bus pass as I dont drive it is a lifeline, many older people choose not to drive for medical or other reasons so stopping the bus pass would mean these people would be forced to drive or be dependant on others for shopping, doctor visits etc.
When my OH & myself first received our fuel allowances we were both working & gave them to a homeless charity. If I remember rightly it was stated at the time they were granted, that it would be too expensive to means test it. Anyway with the huge fuel bills we all receive these days, due to a poorly regulated industry, many more older people will die from cold related illnesses,if they are cut, than do already. When people get cold their circulation slows down & the rate of strokes rises - another strain on the NHS
With regards to the bus pass - social lifeline for many older people. My mother in law would not have got out very often if she hadn't had one & social isolation is one of the main factors in depression in older people - more business for the NHS.
A bit of public health cost benefit analysis needs to be undertaken. Why does no one in the government undertake strategic impact analysis?
Not so quick to decide to cut the subsidised meals and drinks in the House of Commons and House of Lords.
What stupid cynical remarks by liam fox and the tax payers alliance. Makes my blood boil at how arrogant they are. Believe me,we won't all be dead or gaga in 2020.
I have every intention of living beyond 2020 and I have a very good memory.
ayse yes!!!!!
Apologies to all for having started another thread!
I too love my bus pass and as others have send it is a godsend when you don't have a car. The nearest fresh fruit and veg shop is a good 20 minutes walk away whilst the nearest supermarket is 45 minutes away - Oh, and I do live fairly centrally in Newcastle.
If something has to be done about pensioner allowances (not my personal view) then I would suggest including it in taxable benefit!!
Those in receipt of the difference could always give the money to a charity of their choice if they didn't think they needed it!
I don't believe that so much austerity is needed - just collect more tax from multi-nationals from their profits made in this country and introduce a more graduated tax system - the greater your income the more you pay. Perhaps then we could afford to house the homeless, enjoy a National Health Service and live in a more equal society. Pie in the sky maybe, but I thought humans had big brains and imagination - sometimes it looks as if we are stuck in the past by blaming the poorest and weakest in society for all its ills - not those in power
It may happen,I don't have any touching faith in any political party once they are in power. Just that it is a bit of reporting from a think tank.
Just a quick check on Alex Fox. Since he graduated in International Relations from Leeds in 2010 I assume he's in his mid-twenties so may well have grandparents. How proud they must be.
Fox is no spring chicken - although I can't think that he would need the WFA.
Hmmm! How old is Alex Wild? How old are his parents? He may live to regret having said this!
No it hasn't happened yet, just like child tax credit cut was never going to happen. Just like the NHS being safe in the Tories hands, and on and on.
Come back just before the next election and see if you are right in your faith that the Tories will not touch it.
It hasn't happened yet, and probably won't happen.Alex Wild of the Tax Payers Alliance sounds a typically young,'forward thinker' who is tossing ideas around hoping to be noticed.Wiser heads (who know about the power of the grey vote) will hopefully prevail.Having said that, like Monica has said,
There are frills that a lot could do without, better off pensioners do not need free stuff.I would leave the bus passes alone, as those who don't need them probably don't use buses anyway.
I responded on the other page before I saw this.
I am surprised so many do not see the difference between the Taxpayer's Alliance and the current government. They are definitely not the same thing!
It was a very patronising thing to say by someone with very narrow views who seems to think we are all gaga once we receive our pensions.
Do not forget that the WFA was introduced instead of a pension rise so is not actually a 'benefit'. I think it should be incorporated into the state pension once and for all so that all this fuss could be stopped. It is too 'nanny state' for me as it assumes we cannot budget over the year to pay for winter heating. Our generations is very good at budgeting and managing our finances without getting into debt. It was us who bought our homes when interest rates were very high and managed to pay our mortgages one way or another. We lived a long time before credit cards and are used to saving for things rather than instant gratification.
I suspect they monitor what we say so let's say it loud and clear!
What a silly little twerp. Most people are retired by 70 and live well into their 80s and fewer of us are getting dementia (ignore the recent Alzheimer Society research to the contrary, it has been shown to be wrong).
We will rememeber his remarks and who made them and which party supported them not just for this election but for several subsequent elections.
Having said that I have long advocated removing all the bells and whistles of winter fuel allowance and free tv licences that surround the state pension. I find them insulting and demeaning. They should be replaced by
an increase in the basic state pension which will increase the income levelfor Pension credit all the way up the line.
Well off pensioners, like me, will be the ones to bear the brunt of the loss of bells and whistles and I am quite happy about that.
Cynical or what?
And how insulting to say that if we're not dead we will have forgotten who did it - not everyone becomes forgetful as they get older - many have more marbles than this lot!
I am now determined to outlive Liam Fox
(Fingers and toes crossed)
Fox was in the cabinet until he was sacked for misconduct. So not so extreme as to be barred from the cabinet.
They may deny it this week, but they probably think that they haven't softened the voter up sufficiently yet. They have 5 years, so watch this space.
These ideas do not go away, they get worked on. Osborne has the autumn statement so I would take bets on him introducing even more cuts.
I think the government could save a lot of money by getting rid of all these Think Tanks
Shall we start a campaign?
In four weeks I will be eligible for a free TV licence. I have often wondered why, at 74 years and 364 days I can still afford the licence but suddenly get a freebie at 75. I know what great value I get for the licence fee and would willingly continue to pay it as long as I live. But to cut or abolish the winter fuel allowance is to threaten the health and well-being of many older people and I understand that grants for insulation and other 'green' schemes are now being cut. Are they now acknowledging the reality of global warming and hoping that we will all therefore survive future winters?
They are just the extremes. I'm quite sure that the media just highlight this for sheer sensationalism. Bet it will be strongly refuted later today by the actual party as opposed to the Taxpayers Alliance.
Wonder!!!!
Wander what their end game is, and what they secretly would like the UK to look like.
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