Refugees

Demanding? they are frightened , desperate, I doubt I would read the rule book if I were in their position

I agree, harrigran. They knew the rules before leaving their country. I can understand they are afraid of being kept in a refugee camp for a lengthy period and may miss the chance to enter the country of their choice but are they really in a position to be so demanding?

If I was fleeing for my life I would be grateful for any safe haven, I would most certainly not be insisting on being transported to a particular country.
The news coverage of people climbing over other peoples backs and pushing children over the heads of those in front was most disturbing.
Why are they so against being registered ? if you are legitimate and have nothing to hide then it can only be of benefit.

Yes Tricia the evacuation of so many children must have been a colossal task. How they managed the sheer admin without internet etc is a tribute to some extremely dedicated people. A clear system would have had to be drawn up and very careful records must have had to be kept.
I know, off topic but maybe lessons to be learned.

Posted too soon.

The attitude of Hungary suggests they have rather forgotten their past.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6069582.stm

Hungarian refugees
Wikipedia.
After announcing a willingness to negotiate a withdrawal of Soviet forces, the Politburo changed its mind and moved to crush the revolution. On 4 November, a large Soviet force invaded Budapest and other regions of the country. The Hungarian resistance continued until 10 November.
Over 2,500 Hungarians and 700 Soviet troops were killed in the conflict, and 200,000 Hungarians fled as refugees.
Mass arrests and denunciations continued for months thereafter. By January 1957, the new Soviet-installed government had suppressed all public opposition. These Soviet actions, while strengthening control over the Eastern Block, alienated many Western Marxists, leading to splits and/or considerable losses of membership for Communist Parties in the West."

ps perhaps my last post would be better placed in the thread about "practical ways to help"?

If you had an empty part of your own home, with running water and toilet facilities, would you offer it to a refugee family?
I think some people would, but there would need to be some kind of registration first.
Then could you feed them too? We certainly couldn't afford to feed another family. It could take ages for them to find work, and until then who would support them financially? So-called benefits I suppose.
During WW2 many London children, and some families, were taken in by country people, but I think they were funded from the government.
We, (Mum and I) were evacuated from the NE coast with her sister and my cousins for a year or so, to the country. I've no idea how that was funded though.

Hear hear POGS !

The attitude of Hungary suggests they have rather forgotten their past.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6069582.stm

The Hungarian PM gave a media interview and he said that there was a meeting of all the EU countries and it was agreed that countries had to process refugees/asylum seekers/ immigrants call them whast bayou want. Hungary is therefore abiding by EU rules, or trying to.

Germany chose to unilaterally suspend the Dublin Agreement and that is why there are so many now trying to get to Germany. It is pretty obvious that by saying Germany will take so many people this would be the outcome. Germany is not the UK. It is ridiculous to try and compare the two counries.

There is a valid point in what David Cameron has said. The UK has already taken 5.000 Syrian refugees by liasing with refugee workers in the camps who have taken them in. He has said the UK will continue to take refugees but only by continuing this route and I agree with him.

He makes valid points that I cannot argue with. The route for those being given asylum will have a safe passage. They are genuine refugees from that country.

As I have said before, as there always gets to be a thread about a thread about a thread , if I was fleeing for my life I would not be 'demanding' where I want to go. I would be grateful for finding a safe haven and abiding by the rules and if that meant being processed then that is we hat I would do. I am having great difficulty finding respect for those who have destroyed their passports and papers and are 'demanding' to go to wherever they choose and consider they have a right to demand this happens.

Victoria, as individuals all we can do is - do what we can ,it will not seem enough but it's all we have

The title of this discussion is "the refugee crisis how can we help"

Well it seems to me that everyone has got an opinion about the crisis, of course, we all feel strongly about it, but what can we do.

We are fairly helpless really.

I guess we can donate money, clothing etc, but to me it just doesn't seem enough.

We watch and listen to all these horror stories feeling sad and helpless.

Cameron has said we will now take in thousands of refugees

I agree Lucky which is why I'm wondering why the UN hasn't taken a lead.

The EU is being shown up as totally weak and disjointed - it is just this sort of global problem that the strength of the European countries working together was supposed to be able to address.

I am still of the opinion that this is not a problem for Europe alone to tackle, but USA, Australia, Canada, China, Russia (?!) should be getting to grips with it together. There is room in this world for all this displaced people, but there needs to be global goodwill and coordination to make it happen.

Thank you for that poem G23. You and DJ might be interested to know that the there is a move affot to video the song I posted and get it onto Youtube, from where it can be circulated widely - it has such a clear message.

The image of the train packed with refugees, armed soldiers on the platform and the mention of camps made my tummy churn as well.

I find the whole registration issue confusing. The refugees are supposed to be registered in the country they 'land' in. Is that correct?

If so, how come this happens to be Hungary which is a landlocked country in central Europe?

My understanding is that the Hungarian government are just trying to follow EU rules requiring people to register before travelling on. Seems not unreasonable. We need a record of who's who etc. The people on the train seem to have been completely carried away by mass hysteria. They were told that it wasn't going to Germany.
I hadn't realised that Germany wouldn't take people from Balkan states. That must be why the Kosovans and Albanians are destroying their papers and pretending to be Syrians.

How frightened they must have been when having to leave the train , fearing they were to be put in camps . Seeing them board the train caused my tummy to churn.

Anya, we are not the caring country we want to believe we are, yes many want to help the refugees but many more do not . Cameron is making his decisions based on public opinion , two days ago we were not taking more refugees, the child's body on the beach caused more people to feel troubled and bang Cameron may now allow more in

This crisis is certainly shown the EU up for what it really is - a disparate group of countries cobbled together with no united aim.

Far from the dream of some of The United States of Europe.

So, is that why they tried to take them off the train - to register them first, before letting them travel on? I think I'm totally

I read your post wrong MargaretX. Sorry. (not got head on round the right way just yet )

I don't think that is the case. Sorry. I think that awful Hungarian president has an utter dislike of muslims and is tryng to do all he can to keep them out of Europe, and he most certainly doesn't want them in Hungary. He said so himself.

Eloethan I was thinking aloud really. Trying to look at the whole picture, now and in the future. It is a very complicated situation. And it's going to get worse, most likely.

From Germany: the post from elothan is not quite the true situation.
Hungary would love to send all refugees to Germany, nothing would suit them better. They are really annoyed with Fr Merkel because she has told them they can't do this. It is against the EU law. Refugees are to be registered where they land in the land that they arrive at first.

Germany refuses to take refugees from the Balkan States which is why they have to be sorted in Budapest.

They are in receipt of moneys from the EU which they must use for that purpose. Of course they are out of their depth and the behaviour of the refugees is to be understood. Why should they remain in Hungary when there is chance to get to Germany.
The reality in Germany is quite different than their dreams but they don't know that yet. Life is hard in Germany there are strict rules, the language is not easy to learn, and a powerful work ethic. They will get clean accomodaton but nothing luxurious.
Refugees from the Balkan States will get goods and food packets but no cash, and a return ticket to where they came from.
I know that things change everyday but this is what I got from yesterday's news.

I think it was jingle who said we should ask the people who are suffering from cuts in this country to decide whether they want more people coming into the country.

I understand where she's coming from but I don't see it in quite the way she does.

Almost all commentators agree that the cuts here have had a disproportionate and unfair effect on the poor. But the increasing levels of poverty, particularly amongst children, in this country result from policies which deliberately targeted the less well off, whilst lowering the tax burden of the very richest section of the population.

It is my view that the 6th/7th richest country in the world should be able to both implement policies that protect its own population from poverty and also help the refugees, instead of using the (I think avoidable) dire situation of the poor of this country - for whom little governmental concern or compassion has been shown so far - to justify doing nothing to help people from other countries who also desperately need help.

The sight of so many people in Hungary being treated so terribly is, I think, shameful. The Hungarian government seems to me to be totally irrational. On the one hand they have, in effect, indicated that Muslims are not welcome in their Christian country but on the other they are preventing them from travelling to Germany, which has already agreed to accept up to 800,000. Does anyone understand what they're up to? Is it, as jingle suggested, that Hungary is a country on the far right of the political spectrum whose narrow nationalistic/racist attitudes might be thought to be incompatible with the purported values of the EU of openness and co-operation?

These purported values have not, I think, been much in evidence in this crisis. Despite some notable exceptions, most of the countries of the EU have not covered themselves in glory in responding to the desperate plight of the refugees.. The EU itself seems incapable of mobilising any sort of co-ordinated action in this terrible situation. What with the treatment meted out to the people of Greece, I wonder who on earth now has much confidence in what appears to be a very dysfunctional European club - one which, in its eagerness to increase its power, expanded too fast and with almost reckless disregard of the disparate economic situations of potential member countries.

I heard on the news tonight that another round of "Quantitative Easing" has been approved by the EU which presumably signals growing unease about the EU's financial stability. The global financial situation seems to me to be completely out of control.