Refugees

.rosequartz, you think speaking of refugees as 'these people' acceptable ? An English woman in Scotland is like a migrant ? you are confusing frustration with sniping

westieyaya You're all heart, aren't you.

The massacre of the people in Tunisia (rightly) received over a week's coverage. I believe there are codes of practice as to what sorts of films/photographs the media is allowed to broadcast - would you actually like to see close ups of mutilated bodies and, more importantly, would those people's relatives like to see them? Do you really think there should be some sort of some sort of competitive league where tragedies and atrocities vie against each other to elicit outrage?

There is now talk of us bombing Syria and getting very much more involved than we have been up until now, which is what Cameron wanted right from the start. The government was defeated on the vote asking for military intervention but even now we are "assisting" the US in its bombing operations.

It could be argued that this sudden focus on the refugee crisis and the inexplicable behaviour of the Hungarian government has been quite opportune for those who have always called for us to "tackle the issue at root source" - i.e. dropping more bombs on Syria .

So the issue of bombing Syria is now very much to the fore but David Cameron hasn't conceded that much on the issue of refugees, as I understand it, saying that only refugees who are already in Syrian border camps should be "processed" (I hate that word) - that should waste a few more weeks.

I sympathise with these people, however in trying to understand what is happening, I wonder why they are fleeing. Yes Ive seen the war torn buildings on tv and heard different opinions but why don't they stay and fight.
In 1941 when London was in the middle of the blitz, no one packed up and fled, they stayed to show Hitler they wouldn't be beaten. Where would we be nowadays if they had all fled to Germany.

The Uk and US are bombing Syria therefore are we not the enemy.

Also, whenever Ive seen pictures of refugees they are all dressed in rags and look very downtrodden, todays refugees all seem to have fashion clothes and mobile phones, where do they get their money from to run the phones, presumably they have no money/access to bank accounts.
Have they left their jobs to become refugees. Are they all carrying pocketsful of cash (dangerous) or are they just hoping that wherever they end up will dole out some money.

As someone has mentioned earlier where are the women, I have only seen a few women and children. It has been suggested that the women and children will follow but those left behind must have somewhere to live that is reasonably secure otherwise they would not be left alone.

Can anyone enlighten me as to what is going on, also, I have never heard about these displaced people until the last few months, why is this happening now, what did they do until recently.

Well, have come back to this thread after a busy day yesterday and I am horrified at how it has deteriorated into nasty spiteful sniping.

No wonder there is no peace in the world when even supposed mature adults cannot have a reasoned debate without descending to backbiting and derogatory comments such as the ones replying to Spf about a poor murdered woman, plus other comments which are not worthy of the posters.

Disgusting!

And for all those who suddenly have bleeding hearts about the Syrian refugees - have your eyes and ears been shut for years?

It was said on the radio this morning the sister of the man who was trying to get to Canada has said Canada has now offered the man refugee status but he is unwilling to leave the grave of his wife and little boys in Syria ,

Some excellent commentary on this morning's BBC News especially around the distinction between economic migrants and refugees. If the EU and NATO sort out ISIS in Syria and North African countries, as is being contemplated, those economic migrants may well be needed to sort out and rebuild their countries infrastructures. Yes, sanctuary must be offered to the refugees who have fled with nothing.

Things that concern me, are, what if the refugees living rough in camps bring diseases into this country or any other EU country, there is apparently no medical screening in the overwhelming chaos?
And secondly, I don't fancy the chances of those on foot trying to cross the mountains from Austria into Germany.

My final point, why should we be shown pictures of the dead Syrian boy ( to influence public opinion and force the Government to react - fire fighting), the news media didn't show pictures of the tourists massacred by ISIS in Tunisia

SPF, you seem confused , you speak of 'these people' when referring to refugees, you claim you are surrounded by these people, how they rape,form gangs and you are to fearful to venture to parts of your city /town. You refuse to say what is the nationality of these people , you complain they don't comply to the British standards of decency, forgetting some British do the same as 'these people'. Now you speak of an English woman being raped in Scotland could be described as a migrant ?

My town is swamped with English migrants who buy their holiday homes here

I'm a foster carer and I've looked after several boys from Afghanistan. The question I ask myself is "what would I do if I was their mother?" Would I stand by and let them be forced to fight for the Taliban? Or would I try to send my sons to safety?

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Immigrants As seen on Face Book

The family of the little boy who drowned with his mum and brother are of Kurdish background. Kurdish people are disliked in Turkey and so far as I can tell, this is one of the reasons for delay in a more determined response to Isil along the turkey/Syria border. Maybe this explains why the family were keen to join other family members in Canada.

This thread seems to be deteriorating even further into sniping, nasty comments between posters. Thanks from me, again, to Elothean for her usual measured and well informed comments. Many of the dwellings in our area are bought by unscrupulous by to let landlords. We have increasing numbers of deprived (in every sense) families and asylum seekers being shipped to the area because rents in the south east are comparatively so much higher. We have high levels of unemployment, our councils face disproportionately higher levels of cuts to their budgets than more wealthy areas. We are an umbrella town for refugees and asylum seekers. I'm proud that our council continues to take asylum seekers. I wish the government would shape up though and accept that slashing public services and the nhs isn't actually helping anyone.

And Sugarpuff has a very valid point. Integration is a problem. Especially when people prefer (understandably) to live alongside their own countrymen with their own customs. Germany is going to be rather a shock for many methinks.

And thank you MargaretX for explaining the Germany/Hungary situation. I had wondered why Hungary was making life so difficult for itself.

An aside.

Re the bloke trying to get to join his sister in Canada whose family drowned - my son and family (white British) tried to emigrate to Canada. They tried for several years and gave up in the end when they found the immigration department had a five year backlog. That family had apparently been living and working in Turkey for four years, it's a shame they didn't know they were probably pretty near their case being dealt with. I suppose what I'm saying is that Canada wasn't being awkward or biased.

(My niece was puzzled that DS couldn't get to Canada easily. She has a degree. That jumps the queue it seems. A hidden benefit of going to uni)

You have missed my points.
1. The english woman could have been described as an immigrant to Scotland. So for whatever reason she came here she did not deserve what happened to her. She may have been escaping a situation of her own, matrimonial discord or even domestic abuse. She should have been safe.
2. I have not lived in that particular area for about 40 years so I am not in the centre of what is going on. I would never return to stay in that area now. It was not as it was when I was there. I lived in a tiny flat but we owned it and we complied with local customs such as the cleaning in rotation with neighbours of the common parts. I understand there is no cleaning of common parts by residents of the area now . The area underwent extensive renovations about 20 years ago.
3. I build my views on people by my experiences of each individual. I have friends of varying nationalities. Not by first glance of their colour or nationality. I have met some lovely African people, and various europeans, and those also from Canada, America, Australia and New Zealand. I take my views from the conduct of each individual.
4. I am an ethnic minority myself and English is not my first language but I do speak, read and write in English.
My council have a pick up system for larger rubbish. It is an 0800 number so it is free. Anyone wishing to dispose of larger household items can call that number and supposedly it is picked up. I called that number 6 weeks ago about a household item to be uplifted it is still lying outside. Bin lorries drive past this twice a week. With a cleansing service like that we do not need filthy nappies being chuck around gardens because that draws in the foxes who foul the place and dig holes all over the garden. Am I not allowed to have a garden?
There has to be balance. People who wish to join a community should endeavour to fit in and not cause distress to others. That is only common decency
SPF

Any problems with fly-tipping can be reported to www.fixmystreet.com.
Nobody needs to put up with it. We are all responsible for our own environment.
I agree with Eloethan, and I've had my fair share of living in rundown areas. I've never blamed refugees or asylum seekers for the state of the area.
Do something about it.

I find it very disturbing that the rape and murder of a woman is made light of in this way. Was she titled? WTF?? Perhaps try reading the circumstances of the case and imagine how her family would feel reading that comment. I feel heart sorry for the refugees, as do most thinking people. This does not mean we should belittle the experiences of other people dealing with difficult circumstances in their own lives, and we should never, never, belittle a raped and murdered woman.

petra Sugarpufffairy Not all the people on Gransnet will be living in attractive middle class areas. I have lived for the last 27 years in east London in a borough which is described as the 15th most deprived in the UK. Two thirds of the population are of a minority background with the largest ethnic groups originating from: 1. Pakistan, 2. Poland 3. Romania, 4. Jamaica and 5. India. My next door neighbours are of Pakistani origin and on the other side Peruvian/English. Nearby neighbours are Jamaican, Granadian, Chinese, Mauritian, Rumanian, etc. etc. I have never seen the sort of behaviour that you describe.

We do - like many of the poorer areas of London - have problems with fly tipping and general litter but the Council is fortunately very pro-active in these matters. There are pockets of extreme deprivation in the borough where there is possibly the sort of squalor that you describe, but I have never seen it. We do have high rates of violent crime also but that is probably true of very many outlying and deprived areas of most large cities in the world.

I think the sort of problems that you describe are probably common to many very run down areas of large towns and cities where property is much cheaper and which consequently tend to attract unscrupulous landlords with poorly maintained multi-occupancy properties, often occupied by people - of whatever nationality or ethnic origin - who have little education and high levels of unemployment.

I am very sorry that you feel so unhappy where you are now living but, in my experience, it is family background/early socialising and levels of education that determine how people behave in society, not their ethnic origin.

True Jen, we British wouldn't behave in such a way, the British don't rape, fly tip, never form gangs , god we are perfect

Just grown up refugees get washed up on British beaches, Anniebach.

Good grief an English lady was raped in Scotland , tell more, was she titled, do you think no Scots women/ladies are ever raped, has there never been a rape in England

Firms are losing money because people are trying to escape from being blown to bits, how selfish, they should stay, get blown up and leave people to make money . No mention of lorries held up because of strikes by the French , but I suppose that's ok because the French are white European not these people

Only thing you haven't complained about is a child of these people dared to get washed up on a beach and stop holiday makers from swimming for an hour or so,need just be grateful it wasn't a British beach I suppose

This is silly. I don't blame anyone for complaining about dirty nappies being thrown out of windows. We're not inhuman if we don't thank God it's not a bomb.

I hope the refugees are housed in whatever accommodation is appropriate and suitable for them. I hope they move on and lead lives of contentment instead of fear and stress.

Only time will tell.

Petra,if I knew who 'these people' were I wouldn't ask

i100.independent.co.uk/article/an-open-letter-to-anyone-who-ever-talked-down-the-refugee-crisis--Wk3nGnnurx?utm_source=indy&utm_medium=top5&utm_campaign=i100

A few nappies is slightly different to bombs being dropped on you.

Anyone who doubts what I say should Google Moira Jones. She was an English lady who moved up to Scotland. She was raped and murdered and found in Queens Park near the Victoria Road entrance.
You could also google Govanhill in Glasgow. See what is going on.
As Petra says there is no compliance with the laws or even understood decency of the land/country/city/area people want to go to. We use wheely bins throughout the city but they do discard filthy nappies any old where.
I have lived here most of my life I dont see why I dare not even drive through an area. Why should my life be deteriorated in any way because people think this is the place to be.
What I hate most is that all this debating what should be done for refugees/migrants or whatever is dividing people of this country.
I watched a program tonight about the people in Calais who try to jump on the lorries. The amount of them hanging around the port would put me off travelling through that port and general area. Firms in this country are losing money because they spoil goods in the lorry. Surely they would know that this is not the way to legally gain entry to a country.
It all needs to be looked at dispassionately with the most sensible attitudes. If safety was the aim they do not need to come as far as this. I am not being a nimby, I dont live in that area and have not done for about 40 years. I do live in the city for the time being.
In all aspects of our lives people will take advantage of people's kindness and I think that has a lot to do with it.
SPF