Refugees

Posted too soon.

The attitude of Hungary suggests they have rather forgotten their past.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6069582.stm

Hungarian refugees
Wikipedia.
After announcing a willingness to negotiate a withdrawal of Soviet forces, the Politburo changed its mind and moved to crush the revolution. On 4 November, a large Soviet force invaded Budapest and other regions of the country. The Hungarian resistance continued until 10 November.
Over 2,500 Hungarians and 700 Soviet troops were killed in the conflict, and 200,000 Hungarians fled as refugees.
Mass arrests and denunciations continued for months thereafter. By January 1957, the new Soviet-installed government had suppressed all public opposition. These Soviet actions, while strengthening control over the Eastern Block, alienated many Western Marxists, leading to splits and/or considerable losses of membership for Communist Parties in the West."

Yes Tricia the evacuation of so many children must have been a colossal task. How they managed the sheer admin without internet etc is a tribute to some extremely dedicated people. A clear system would have had to be drawn up and very careful records must have had to be kept.
I know, off topic but maybe lessons to be learned.

If I was fleeing for my life I would be grateful for any safe haven, I would most certainly not be insisting on being transported to a particular country.
The news coverage of people climbing over other peoples backs and pushing children over the heads of those in front was most disturbing.
Why are they so against being registered ? if you are legitimate and have nothing to hide then it can only be of benefit.

I agree, harrigran. They knew the rules before leaving their country. I can understand they are afraid of being kept in a refugee camp for a lengthy period and may miss the chance to enter the country of their choice but are they really in a position to be so demanding?

Demanding? they are frightened , desperate, I doubt I would read the rule book if I were in their position

I think those ones we saw on TV had worked themselves up into a state of mindless hysteria. They're stuck now and can't see how to back down. I'd rather be in a safe ordered camp with my family as near my homeland as possible and among people who understood my culture and language than involved in a dangerous rush into the unknown.

They are demanding, Anniebach. I'm not disagreeing about their desparation but how long will it be before they turn the tide of sympathy? Yes of course they are human but so are the people who are caught up in this mayhem.

After all they have been through I would have hysteria too

" For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing"
Simon Wiesenthal.
I for one will admit to doing nothing about the refugee situation, except of course discussing it and thinking about it.
I see some places are sending blankets , tents and warm clothes, well done Leeds Festival and others.
Any ideas as to how people in general, Gransnetters in particular can make a difference to these fellow human beings ????

Like most of you I cried for the Father of those babies. But then I read that he had been in Istanbul for some time working as a barber.
Turkey is not a third world country. Why wasn't he content to stay in a safe financial viable country. And although Turkey is a secular country it is predominantly Muslim.
We know that most of these would be migrants are believing the hype about Europe being the land of milk and honey.

The father and his family were heading for Canada, where they had a relative who was sponsoring them, but the Canadian authorities were being awkward about granting them entry.

Ok those who think the asylum seekers from Syria etc are being rash and panicking to get out of Syria. This is what a lot of that country looks like now.
www.google.co.uk/search?q=syrian+civil+war&biw=1138&bih=500&tbm=isch&imgil=M5rgENFagvqBKM%253A%253BJUHBfWblDRKOyM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fgeopoliticsmadesuper.com%25252F2015%25252F07%25252F27%25252Fthe-short-history-of-the-mess-that-is-syria%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=M5rgENFagvqBKM%253A%252CJUHBfWblDRKOyM%252C_&usg=__mm4mS3UNzQJ2wTLk_tY4X1zMPkE%3D#imgrc=M5rgENFagvqBKM%3A&usg=__mm4mS3UNzQJ2wTLk_tY4X1zMPkE%3D

What length would you go to protect your children? Look what happened to the Kinder transport children. Most of them lost all their families in the gas chambers. Their parents knew very well how appallingly dangerous Germany had become for them and decided to save them.

Britain has fortunately never been in the situation where so many have become refugees, evacuation is about the nearest we have come to that.

What would those whose posts on this thread appear to be unhappy about us accepting more refugees do if they and their children lived in a country which looked like that shown above? Would they stay where they are and run the risks of the madness of this evil regime? Would you go or stay?

As previously posted I'd be happy enough in a safe well ordered camp.

Nellie, difficult to absorb all that horror, is it any wonder they are in a state of hysteria , the fear of having to return there must be so strong

Well said Nelliemoser. A close friend arrived in the UK on the kinder transport, she lost all her relatives to the gas chambers. Another close friend's parents managed to get themselves to the UK and he was born here soon after the war. None of their family in Warsaw survived the holocaust.

We're lucky to be an island race and to have avoided invasion for so many years. We have a stable political system, we don't always agree with it, or like our governments but we're fortunate in having democracy.

I'd definitely be hysterical in the situation so many refugees find themselves. Camps tend not to be either well ordered or safe - e.g. the recent examples of sexual abuse of children in the Australian camps and the rape of women in Yarswood. We know enough about institutions to know they aren't always safe places. Yes, safer than being bombed to **in Syria and so preferable to that but not something any of us would choose.

Well it's easy to express hypothetical contentment about taking up residence in a refugee camp.

Have you seen some of these camps? They are extremely basic and quite often in the middle of nowhere, adults and children dependent on subsistence rations and with not very much for adults or their children to look forward to. Some refugees have spent their whole lives in such camps. Would you be so "happy" to contemplate bringing your children up in such a place and perhaps never getting out of it?

I heard on a news items that the reason they don't want to go through the registration process in Hungary is because Hungary only recognises around, I think, 10% of applicants as being genuine asylum seekers, whereas other countries recognise a far greater number. (From what I have seen of Hungary, I'm not surprised at this as they seem to have a particularly negative and suspicious view of people whose cultures are different from their own.) If these people - who have undergone terrible and often dangerous journeys - are not granted refugee status, they will presumably be sent back. I would be pretty hysterical about going back to the sort of mayhem that Nelliemoser's link showed.

This link has photos of typical refugee camps. Would you like to bring up your family in one of these with perhaps no hope of ever leaving?

www.bing.com/images/search?q=Middle+East+refugee+camps&FORM=HDRSC2

I think my post of Fri 04-Sep-15 17:53:59 should carry a "You must see these images of the destruction in Syria but I warn you it is distressing" warning.

No. We should look.

We must look - unless we do, we cannot understand.

It is all very well to feel sorry for these people but they should have been content to get to the next country. I travelled by a reputable ferry company over 100 years trading without a drowning yet I worried for my children. I would never have taken my children on the tin cans these people took their children on. The first responsibility for children lies with the parents, us in the UK are way down the line having responsiblitiy for dead children of people who want and demand to go to certain countries. The first country should have satisfied them.
I live in a city with a multiple cultures. The area in which we had our first house is now where a lot of incomers now live. The scenes are awful the council are having to buy the houses from private landlords who gave up trying to keep up the building or the area. They use the streets as bins. They hang around street corners in gangs. They have commited serious crimes like rapes in the area (always white local women), at least one woman murdered and raped. There are womens' marching through the area trying to reclaim and make the streets safe for women to live, work and walk. It is scary to go there now.
Is this fair to us. There has just this minute been another situation in the said area. People are fighting with the police to deal with the crimes in the area. My family fought in two world wars so that I could be safe on the street of this country and now I am not.
SPF

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-26116868

I found this useful in trying to understand the conflict.

Sugarpufffairy. I understand completely what you are saying. I suspect there are many people on here who have never experienced the scenes you are describing.

What people?

Don't do that again, Annie. You know exactly what I mean.

sugarpufffairy Petra The expression "these people" is deameaning in the extreme and such a remark seems to show no compassion whatsoever.

Whatever you feel about the area in which you live you are not in a war zone threatened by an evil and oppressive regime.

I am quite appalled by how dismissive of the humanitarian plight of refugees some posters on this thread seem to be.

If any of us just happened to be born in and live in a different country we could be in this situation.