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sisters in Syria

(102 Posts)
PRINTMISS Sat 20-Jun-15 08:14:08

I have been a little loath to start this discussion, because of course it is a rather shocking thing in my opinion which seems to have taken place without anyone being aware that three sisters were so unhappy in this country that they decided to take their children to a country we believe to be dangerous. I cannot understand how they could take their children from what appear to be loving fathers, and leave such sadness behind. My one wish for these sisters and their children is that they find what they are looking for in a country we are told is harsh and unforgiving, and will not regret their decision.

Anya Sat 20-Jun-15 15:17:53

If they have the wherewithal to organise and carry out an escape to Syria then they ought to be able to do that, I agree jingl

BTW was it just me or did the interviews with their husbands seem a bit 'off'? All that hand wringing and whiney voices. I have some experience of seeing people grieving and it didn't come across as genuine, but then perhaps it's a cultural difference.

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 20-Jun-15 14:20:21

And what are we supposed to do about it then? They need to sort themselves out. If the young women don't like the restrictions their religion puts on them - and who would? - then they must take the education this country offers them, and find lives for themselves, in this country. Time to stand up for themselves in a sensible manner.

petallus Sat 20-Jun-15 13:50:28

Just read the independent article which makes a lot of sense to me.

TerriBull Sat 20-Jun-15 13:47:10

Whilst the independent article offers some explanation "women who don't feel welcome in their own country" This won't be a first, Britain has absorbed many nationalities, cultures and religions and I expect some of those from time to time will have felt isolated, possibly by lack of language or culture. My own grandfather was an immigrant but he married my grandmother who was English, always the quickest way to integrate fully in my opinion. I know extended members of his family that came here, particularly the women, hung on to vestiges of the old country, wearing black for too long after a relative died was one, but generally what happens is the next generation gradually throws off these traditions and if they marry out they will further immerse themselves in the way of the host country, to do this though THEY MUST BE OPEN TO MIXING. Yes I know the argument about Brits in Spain, but they are generally retirees. The strange thing about some of the Muslim communities, that often they can be third generation and they want to go back to a way of life that their grandparents were willing to leave. Riverwalk I do agree, the way Benezir Bhutto dressed managed to combine traditional modesty and elegance. The face covering is just about the biggest barrier that anyone can put up in my opinion a sort of horrific sinister mish mash of an disembodied mobile tent and Darth Vader. Yasmin Allibah Brown is a vociferous critic of that mode of dress and frequently points out that Muslim women are not required to cover themselves in this way, it's a tradition that emanates from Saudi Arabia that has been adopted and we all know how they view women.

For every woman who wants to go into Syria and Iraq there must be hundreds of the indigenous women from those regions who with their families are trying to get out, shouldn't that tell them something.

Marelli Sat 20-Jun-15 13:08:09

Good post. TerriBull.

durhamjen Sat 20-Jun-15 13:06:22

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/for-british-muslim-women-isis-may-offer-freedom-10329930.html?origin=internalSearch

TerriBull Sat 20-Jun-15 12:56:30

The women, being adults make an informed choice, they know what to expect when they get there but they are subjecting their children to an awful, awful life and there was a picture of two of the younger ones, sweet faced brother and sister that made me very fearful for the very limited and dangerous lives they will now lead. The little girls could possibly expect to be married off as young as 9 and the boys may be initiated into all things awful at a young boys Jihadi training camp. If they go out they can expect to witness public executions and severed heads on spikes. No matter how disillusioned anyone is in our country, how misguided must these women be, many of the citizens of Raqqua and other towns and cities that have been overrun by these awful usurpers feel as if they have descended into hell, because hell is what it sounds like. We wont know, but I suspect many of the schoolgirls that have gone there are actually living wretched lives now. One of the panelists on Question Time on Thursday pointed out that 400 disillusioned western Muslims have been executed when caught trying to flee.

Frankly I get fed up with hearing about Muslims that are not happy here, if that's how they feel then they should go and live in a Muslim country, but taking their children to a war zone is foolish and selfish. Lets hear more from those that do enjoy living in this country and btw I don't think I've heard any negative comments from Sikhs and Hindus who come to the UK, most live quietly do their best to assimilate and we are happy to have them.

Anniebach Sat 20-Jun-15 12:11:31

Can't agree they are obsessed with sex, good grief this country is obsessed with sex

Stansgran Sat 20-Jun-15 12:08:57

It's a medieval religion struggling in a modern world and I feel they are obsessed with sex.

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 20-Jun-15 12:00:26

It just so lags behind in modern day thinking.

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 20-Jun-15 11:59:50

There is a lot wrong with the religion. Stoning of women for adultery to start with.

Riverwalk Sat 20-Jun-15 11:34:17

I don't know the precise background of the three sisters but I doubt if they are well-educated and in happy marriages.

It can't be much fun growing-up in a closed community, marrying a cousin from back home, enclosed in a depressed Northern city with limited opportunies and at cultural odds with the outside world.

Silly cows are off on an adventure.

hildajenniJ Sat 20-Jun-15 11:19:52

Do they not have a brother in Syria who is fighting with IS? I wonder how much influence he exerted upon them to join the cause. I also read that IS need educated, computer literate women to help further the cause among western muslim women. Taking their children into such a poor war torn country, does not strike me as being very educated though.

Anniebach Sat 20-Jun-15 11:14:54

I hope so Jingle, God I hope so

Riverwalk Sat 20-Jun-15 11:11:40

Jings I don't think there's so much wrong with the religion, more much wrong with the cultural background of such communities.

The Pakistani community in places like Bradford were almost exclusively from one poor rural area and this has been continued by the marrying-off of their children not to local partners but bringing in uneducated partners from the home province.

This has perpetuated a lifestyle that belongs in 1950s Punjab - combined with Islamism, faith schools (thanks last Labour government) racism, and decline of the mill industries no wonder there is a sense of 'otherness' particularly amongst the young.

And let us not forget who finances and influences most the Pakistani mosques, our good friends Saudi Arabia.

rosesarered Sat 20-Jun-15 11:07:24

Highly unlikely.

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 20-Jun-15 10:52:54

Well then, I hope they are happy in the life they have chosen. And I sincerely hope that those children can have happy lives too.

Anniebach Sat 20-Jun-15 10:50:40

For us living here is better than living in Syria but this is our judgement, it has been reported one mother didn't want to bring up her children here because we are becoming so like America . Possibly the mothers were unhappy in a country where their faith is attacked daily, they choice of dress is condemned , too many young people get drunk, wear dresses up to their knickers, choose to live together not marry, perhaps they just couldn't take anymore daily Muslim rants in the media , I don't know , not one of us do

Greyduster Sat 20-Jun-15 10:48:03

I feel no sorrow for the women who went - God help them in their new life, they will need it, but they should not have taken the children. The wailing husbands appealing to their wives about the 'perfect marriages' they had left behind made me sick to my stomach - those perfect marriages the product, apparently, of arranged marriages with older men from Pakistan. These marriages are not love matches, they are, for the most part, passports. Were there not young men among the Muslim community here who would have made good matches? I can understand to some extent that they were not happy in this country - there are aspects of our culture that I find appalling, but I can't understand how the most orthodox Muslim would want to submit themselves to the atrocious strictures of life within IS. What really annoys me is the way we are supposed to beat ourselves up for supposedly not doing anything to stop them becoming radicalised. When are we in this country going to stop being asked to carry an albatross round out collective neck for every perceived injustice our ethnic communities choose to lay at our feet?

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 20-Jun-15 10:33:34

Surely it's got to be better than life in a war zone?

If those snivelling fathers care so much, why don't they get off their arses and go and get their children?

I agree the women were probably married off to husbands not of their choosing. There is so much wrong with that religion.

loopylou Sat 20-Jun-15 10:13:01

As these women had already had a previous attempt and been held at Heathrow, missing their flight, I suspect their ' loving husbands and happy home life' clearly wasn't anything of the sort, it must have been pretty dire if Syria seemed to be better!

I expect they know exactly what their heading in to, and I wonder just what the actual reason for not leaving the children behind - possibly because of the expectations of the fathers?

Nonnie Sat 20-Jun-15 10:12:24

I agree with River, it is the self isolation which breeds such discontent. I read that they believe the British media is all propaganda and that what they read about ISIS is genuine and not propaganda.

I was not surprised by most of the Muslim reaction to what DC said yesterday, I didn't feel they had listened to what he actually said but what they thought he meant.

Anniebach Sat 20-Jun-15 10:01:13

Why should the mothers leave their children with the fathers if this is not a country they want their children brought up in .

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 20-Jun-15 09:42:26

I hope you are not suggesting we should feel sorry for these women (OP) because "they were not happy in this country". They should have either made themselves happy like the rest of us try to do, perhaps by counting their blessings, or taken themselves off and left the children with their fathers.

Riverwalk Sat 20-Jun-15 08:40:00

It's very disturbing all round, particularly the taking of so many children.

What struck me, and I think it's typical, the three sisters are UK born and bred but appear to have been married-off to men from Pakistan.

Radicalisation is one issue but IMO the major concern is the self-isolation and extreme religious observance of such communities. If you see 1960s TV footage about Asians in mill towns the women are wearing colourful shalwar khameez and a very loose head scarf (as per Benezir Bhutto) now most of them are in full-length black garb and niquab.