This made me CROSS (shouty capitals)

No. You are right. But we have hindsight.

I do wonder if getting rid of Saddam Hussein, Gadalfi etc wasn't a misjudgment in light of ISIS. I'm definitely not condoning those dictators and their atrocities but it seems we now have something infinitely worse.

I expect to be roundly shouted down saying this so .......

Exactly Trisher. I won't add to this, as it is going nowhere. Not sure about my spelling, so hope I won't be castigated for it again, but 'there is nought so blind as those that can't or won't see'.

Can I put right the idea that I have in anyway said I like ISIS. I actually said I doubt the way we are being subjected to such a lot of propaganda making them into the worst evil in the world, and the reason I doubt it is that it has been done before. Look back at the succession of "evil regimes" in the Middle East- the Ayatolla in Iran, Saddam Hussein in Iraq, Assad in Syria, Gadalfi in Libya. They have yo-yoed between being in and out of favour depending upon how useful they were to the US. I also asked why this is the aspect of Islam that people choose to focus on? and still haven't had an answer. I suspect it is simply that people like a scapegoat and really looking at what Islam means is much harder than accepting the prejudices we are being fed daily.

A shame that somehow several threads got mixed up last night. Replies to one comment can easily take the whole discussion sideways. That's life- and apologies for my part in this.

I actually agree that Gvt agencies should keep an eye on borders - but cannot be made 'responsible' for those leaving for ISIS and Syria in the way voiced in the interview. I felt it was wrong too when I heard it.

My comments were not about 'America' or rather the USA- but about the deep Southern States- were the % of ex slaves is higher (they were not economic migrants, that is for sure, neither were they willing to emigrate!) and also with a much higher % of those who are openly white supremacists, belong to KKK type hate organisations, and who support them or their ideology. I've had several very unfortunate meetings with some of them, and the venom was seriously upsetting and concerning.

Maybe so Soutra, but as I said there was nothing to stop them entering the States legally
I'm well aware of the border patrols, there was a recent programme where the border police said they only catch about 10% of the numbers entering the USA.

To return to the OP (if that's possible on this thread) - I've just read on line that the 2 husbands of the 3 women from Bardford now in Syria, are blaming anti terror police for encouraging this. Evidently, taking them off the plane when they made their first attempt at pilgrimage and then monitoring them was wrong. The police are accused of encouraging the women to keep in touch with their younger brother, who'd gone off to be an Isis fighter.

The third husband returned to Pakistan 8 months ago after his wife wanted a divorce. He evidently says that after her brother left, she cried all the time, stopped doing housework or caring for the children, so it was left to him to do those things.

Of course it's not just Mexicans who cross that boarder - there's huge trafficking of desperate and poor people from various South American countries. Just as those getting on boats in Libya are not all Libyans.

I don't believe it is as easy as you say loopylou for Mexicans, or indeed anybody, to get work /residency permits in the U.S. Which was what I meant by "crossing the border."Green cards and that. "Nothing to stop them"? Then why are there 24 hour border patrols and those caught are shipped back?

There's nothing to stop Mexicans entering the States legally. I realise there's a cost but the vast majority are paying people smugglers to get across the border illegally.
I don't believe the entire tourist industry would crash because surely not all the employees are illegal immigrants?

At the same time, if it were possible to stop Mexicans illegally crossing the border to the US, the entire tourist and hospitality industry would probably collapse for lack of maids, cleaners, janitors, etc.

I vividly remember the Berlin Wall being erected and being demolished. I also remember crossing from West to East Berlin. I feel a tremor of horror and fear about physical but politically-motivated walls being erected – whether between Israel and the Occupied Territories or the USA and Mexico.

I've only just read all of this thread (apart from the links), and, before it evolves into a Bash UKIP thread, I'd like to say that I think like Joan (on page one) and wish that Envious would pipe up a bit more on the situation in the southern States as she lives there.

I'm not sure where, other than Europe, African refugees would go.
The Islamic countries certainly wouldn't be an option [hnn]

Surely that is an accident of geography. If you were living in Australia, they would be coming from somewhere else. And Mexicans still stream over the border into the U.S.

We're all immigrants. We came from Africa. How strange that most of the Mediterranean refugees also come from Africa and many of them want to come here.

Send them all back then and leave the continent to the Bears.

Even the native Americans are immigrants, they entered North America via land bridges from East Asia.

It's a Republican who wants to build a wall to keep out the immigrants.

Apart from the Native Americans, they're all immigrants of one sort or another in the U.S. I suppose

i like that car sticker. Obama could have done so much if his hands hadn't been tied.

Granjura a 'significant number' of British people support UKIP and the BNP.

That doesn't mean you can argue that Britain, or parts of it, consist largely of people who want everyone who has a non-English name deported from the country.

Yes there is racism in America.

The other side of the coin is that it is home to millions of people who arrived as migrants and have made lives for themselves and live in a multicultural, multiracial society free of many of the class and tribal divisions that are perpetuated within the UK.

I saw a car sticker the other day that said 'Keep the immigrants - kick out the Republicans'. Admittedly it was in New York State, but we are in no position to criticise the USA, IMHO.

No, please not more links

Sorry!

Cue several links...