Is wolf-whistling a sex crime?

I wonder when a wolf whistle (which never offended me, rather the opposite) became a sexist offence?
Needless to say I haven't had one for years!

A guiding principle is, if person 1 is behaving in a certain way towards person 2 and it becomes obvious that person 1 is uncomfortable and stressed by that behaviour, person 1 should desist.

If person 1 persists with the unwelcome behaviour, it is then by definition aggressive and harassing.

There have always been women around who like to side with men against other women

Years ago a wolf whistle was seen as a compliment (in my opinion anyway). I had my fair share of them and always felt pleased if someone whistled at me.

Obviously the world is a different place now.

If Mrs. P got a wolf whistle whilst we were together I would feel quite proud, then I would say - does he need his eyes testing - then physical assault would occur.
I'm in trouble again

How were the men to know that the woman in question was distressed?

I'm not siding with anyone. I just don't see why she didn't complain for a month although she says she felt harassed or why she's happy to have her photo plastered over the papers. Now people will know what she looks like and if they see her they are bound to point/talk about her. I would find that far more threatening.

vampirequeen This young woman had apparently been harassed constantly when passing the building site and had tried to ignore the whistles until one day one of the group of men stood in front of her and blocked her path. Can you not see that a young woman on her own might feel vulnerable in such a situation?

No-one has suggested that a man can't look at a woman - but there is such a thing as stepping over the line. For instance, a quick, appreciative glance at a person (male or female) from a person that finds them attractive is probably quite a natural response. A persistent stare is something entirely different. It's all about common sense and balance.

As JessM said, the statistics demonstrate that women don't imagine men can cause them harm - the fact is a considerable number of men do cause harm to a considerable number of women. When there is a spate of violent sexual assaults on women or non-domestic murders, other women are urged not to go out on their own, to ensure they get a taxi home, etc., etc., which is not house arrest but is certainly a restriction on their freedom to come and go as they please.

A touchstone for me is to substitute racist or homophobic behaviour for the sexist e.g. 2 of the workmen, one in a machine, obstructed the passage of the woman who complained; if they had done this to individuals from either of those 2 other groups , in the context of the month long daily, derogatory vocalisations , i have no doubt that the aggressors' behaviour would be attacked- not the behaviour of the recipient. Are women the last frontier for men to bolster their flagging whatever? Or perhaps it's children. BTW several men are posting on MN condemning the behaviour.

I think the point wondering why she didn't (a) tell the men to stop it as she didn't like it and (b) find out the manager and tell him/her she felt harassed by the whistles is valid. It's possible she felt too harassed to do (a) but she could have done (b) before making a complaint to the police. Couldn't she?

As it stands, I'm not sure a crime was committed. I think an attempt should have been made to make the men stop the whistling and so forth by (a) or (b) and only if that didn't work a formal police complaint made.

However, some people are not very assertive. Complaining to the police was another option.

The police decided it wasn't a crime but had words with the men apparently. She is 23 - she feels she is being harassed- of course she wouldn't say anything to the men or look for the manager. Can you imagine what she would almost certainly have had to contend to if she had done so? Oh and apparently the chief protagonist has called her a ' silly little girl' and has been in prison for affray. Nice.

It's not for the men to try to work out if a woman would be distressed, it's for them not to do it!

Groups of men [especially young men] can be very intimidating. For years I was our village litter picker upper [it was one of several jobs that I did!]. Sometimes I'd be walking round the village and I would see one or other of the village lads and would say hello and they would say hello back. However, if those lads happened to be in a group, even though I'd known them since they were at play group I'd feel uncomfortable and cross the road to get away away from them. At the time it puzzled me why I felt that way, but I did [and probably still would now].

VQ....agree 100%

Jess M.....I'm well aware of the statistics, I just don't think that the default setting in instances like this should be to blame the male of the species without being aware of both sides of the debate. We wouldn't judge other situations without having all the information, wouid we? Let's get all The information before we rush to judgement.

Petallus.....you've just proven my point by using phrases like "taking men's side against women." Separatist and confrontational language- sides? against? - this isn't war! Men are not my enemy! We all know lots of men through work, family, social circles etc and that they're all pretty decent blokes with the same fears and foibles as the rest of us. Why are they all condemned in your eyes ( I repeat, "taking men's side against women") by virtue of their sex?

Thatbags.....if you're referring to the young lady in question as not being assertive then I wouid have to disagree. She's assertive enough to deal with being plastered all over the media.

Her actions have demeaned the very real work on equality that still needs to be done.

There is that, katek. Assertive enough to not mind big publicity. Wouldn,t be my cup of tea, certainly.

GT, I wasn't thinking of her finding the manager on the site, but finding which company was doing the work (they have to display a sign, don't they?) and writing to the company director asking that the men be spoken to and told to stop wolf whistles, etc.

She didn't have to go into the site. All she had to do was phone the head office and if she didn't want to speak to a man about it she could have asked to speak to a woman. The head office would then have dealt with it.

I'm reading the just out book by @herdyshepherd1 (James Rebanks), The Shepherd's Life. I've got to the point where he is describing how the tups (rams) behave when the yows (ewes) come into season. The tups "are strutting and head-butting.... and stamping their front feet.... their manes bristle". Made me think of the behaviour of those other males mammals, some men. In our 'raw' state we humans are not so far removed from such animals and I don't think that, however much we might wish it, we can ever iron out all male harassing behaviour. We can teach women how better to deal with it though, how to assert themselves to "get the men told" by someone in authority over them, for instance, to stop their nonsense or lose their jobs.

She could have remained anonymous. The company could have sent around a general notice regarding behaviour reminding their staff of the company policy on wolf whistles etc. There were then be no way that anyone would have known who had complained. Instead she went public and is plastered over the papers.

Personally if I'd found passing the building site so distressing, after a couple of days I'd have changed my route. If that was impossible then made sure I had earplugs in and ignored them - surely they'd have given up if no reaction?
That's not condoning their subsequent behaviour by the way.

She is 23 - she feels she is being harassed- of course she wouldn't say anything to the men or look for the manager

I think that at 23, unless she is a real shrinking violet, phoning the manager would be the logical step and should not be beyond the capability of a woman of that age.
If she got nowhere then she would have to think again.

I am surprised that none of the other men on the site told him to 'give her a break, leave her alone' when he invaded her personal space. Not all men are sexual harrassers (is that a word?) and most are decent.

According to the report I read, she did complain to the building company - but only on the same day she informed the police.

thatbags
I must look out that book; my forebears are shepherds.

She is the innocent in this, but of course she is now wellknown and unfortunately this publicity will follow her, however wrong that is.
I worked with a temp who took her previous employers to court for constructive dismissal and won. However, she could not understand why she was unable to get another full-time job. She had also threatened litigation over an incident at the local hospital. However much she may have been in the right (and she was always in the right), it made future employers and local medical staff very wary of her.

There is a site listed on MN re BBC news article 32493749 which reports that she did contact the company and they did not resolve the problem, in fact it escalated from vocalisations to physical confrontation.Also i have not read that she sought this publicity and i doubt if she anticipated that the granny generation would be attacking her. Fortunately the mummies are not.

Thanks for that information armarmai which puts a different light on it.
The media does portray things how they want to, don't they

hope he got the sack

Grans are not attacking the woman. They are discussing an issue and how best to deal with such sadly not always preventable things.

I am wondering now if there has been research into male harassment of females in public places and whether things are improving or not. If they are not improving we need to change something so that things do improve.

rosequartz

Did you view the link in the post made yesterday at 14.36?

It was a link to the Mirror and my belief is this is video evidence taken by the young lady in question. On that footage the driver of the 'machine' , which in this clip is of a JCB/digger is leaning forward and facing away from the video taker looking inward to the yard and not even acknowledging her presence until he spots one of his workmates looking out to the pavement .