Is wolf-whistling a sex crime?

soon and ginny

Do you get the impression the Mirror link is giving video evidence of the actual encounter, I couldn't make my mind up ?

I've read that two men obstructed her and got up close to her face saying "Morning love" this on it's own would seem fairly innocent but put it with the whistling every day for a month and frequent sexual comments it becomes something else.
She had complained to their company and it still went on. Having considered changing her route she decided "Why should I?".

Whistling is one thing, this seems to have gone a step further. Was she right to inform the police.

I'm not sure what that clip is supposed to show. As far as I can see / hear there was one whistle and one other that sounded more like an electrical or mechanical sound. I wonder why she panned in on the two workmen, I could see nothing other than them looking to see who was walking by.

My last word on this is that probably the whistler was ill advised bearing in mind todays thinking but not guilty of sexual harassment. However if one stood in her way, he was certainly in the wrong.

petallus I realise that it came across as a puerile argument, and of course I don't mean that nothing should be discussed because there is always something somewhere more serious. I think what I was trying to say, badly obviously, was that I find this all a bit trivial. I certainly do not condone sexual harassment of any kind, I have a teenage daughter, but there is a big leap from a few wolf whistles, (if that is what happened), to gross and vulgar gestures or any physical threats. I just feel that we are sometimes in danger of over politicising everything and making everything an offence. I find many things offensive, but wolf whistles from scaffolding is not one.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/wolf-whistling-builders-quizzed-cops-over-5590787

All I can hear is a wolf whistle.
It appears that she is walking right through the site.

I agree though that men who do it, cannot guarantee how well it is going to be received.

The man who did it to the girl did seem to have more than a compliment in mind.

Eloethan. Last paragraph. Validation has been covered by ginny in her 11.13am post. It is nice to have a cream cake every so often. nOt necessary, but nice. A compliment by a stranger.

I can't do links but is the video on the Mirror website taken by her as evidence of this particular incident.?

GillT57 you say 'tell that to the poor souls huddling in their tents in Katmandu'

I've always been baffled by those who think this is a valid argument.

How many of the normal concerns posted on GN would be invalidated by the tents argument?

Certainly annoyance at inconsiderate next door neighbours, irritation with husbands, worries about the effect on grandchildren of their parents breaking up. And so on.

All very serious concerns but nothing compared with huddling in a tent.

Of course, it would be possible to tell those huddling in tents they shouldn't complain because at least they and their families have not been blown apart by having a bomb dropped on them out of nowhere, neither have they been drowned at sea trying to get to a better life!

Well, everyone's different aren't they and, given that, it's probably better that men don't assume that their shouts and wolf whistles are universally welcomed.

Personally, when I was younger I found it embarrassing and intimidating to be shouted and whistled at by a group of leering men.

If a man stood in front of me and didn't let me pass, I would find it intimidating and possibly threatening. I don't think a wolf whistle should be treated as sexual harrassment in normal circumstances but if it is accompanied by lewd comments and invasion of personal space, it is, in my opinion, unacceptable.

I think it's rather sad that women feel the need for their attractiveness to be validated in this way - particularly as I feel this sort of male behaviour is not really meant to be complimentary.

When I was young I hated it and found it very embarrassing and upsetting if I was whistled at. Okay maybe I was shy and retiring but I still found myself changing my route to avoid it happening again. I think she was fully entitled to complain about something she found upsetting and intimidating.

What you describe is sexual harassment. Heavy sexual harassment.

It always surprises me to read other women who are minimising sexual harassment and victim blaming ( change your route, don't have your picture in the papers, get a sense of humour, appreciate and welcome wolf whistles and shouts etc)

I worked in the offices of an engineering factory in the late 60's. One of my jobs was to brew up for the managers. This meant making the track across the work floor into the kitchen. It was a several times a day nightmare. Shouting, whistling etc, dreadful. I've never felt that this kind of behaviour was anything other than humiliating.

Our daughters were tall, skinny teenagers. I remember their dad being furious about the amount of horn pipping, chaps hanging out of windows making the universal sign for masturbation. The girls reassured him that they had got used to it, and to ignore it. They disliked it intensely of course, but were powerless to change the behaviour. Their dad is a gentle soul but came home ranting.

Why on earth should any woman or girl put up with this kind of behaviour.

Pogs "I would have thought a young girl who felt scared or intimidated by this 'ordeal' would hardly have wanted the story to be so openly publicised "
Why not? She has done nothing wrong. Your inverted commas around "ordeal" reveals that you don't take her situation seriously.
She complained about persistant behaviour, shouting and whistling ginny not just about the one occasion someone stood in her way. I wonder what level of interference with her routine should be considered unacceptable? If they pushed her? if they touched her?
The reason it is the same as the skimpy clothes scenario ginny is that in both cases it is the victim who is blamed not the perpetrator.
Women have the right to walk in the street free from any harrassment, or fear of harrassment.

I know this is totally non PC but a chorus of wolf whistles was a rite of passage for me.

I was about 15 and had a very domineering mother who was always criticising my appearance.

I was walking along a street with mum when a large group of builders greeted me with enthusiastic wolf whistles.

They were leaning over some scaffolding and pointing at me in case, I guess, mum thought they were for her

Mum was furious but it made me see that I was quite attractive and not the things she often said I was.

Don't suppose at my age I'll get any wolf whistles now but I was walking along a road with my Dil when a car driver gave her a toot toot on his horn. She didn't mind at all.

Oh I think I a may be wrong I have just viewed the Mirror on line , can't do links.

She is making a statement of her own volition for the good by the looks of it.

So nobody set her up as I thought she is obviously a stronger character than I first thought.

trisher

I was not making a condemnatory remark , that's how you read it.

I remain of the opinion that this girl would have no interest in her story being so predominate in the national press, especially showing photos of her. I would have thought she found it mortifying to read and see herself in the public eye .

Did somebody else create the story without her knowledge was my point.

Oh for goodness sake trisher, 'pestered her every day' . On one occasion someone stood in her way. Yes, unacceptable but whistling is hardly pestering ! Miss Smart says she was 'targeted' . Surely targeting is when an action is deliberately aimed at a particular person known to the perpetrators with intent to harm in some way.

As for saying those of us who wonder why it was reported to the press is equivalent to saying anyone wearing skimply clothes is asking to be raped . That certainly is a load of twaddle.

Yet another story about nothing probably if it is in the Daily Telegraph, just more grist to the mill for their unreconstructed readers. But......I cant help thinking that we do all take ourselves and our feelings too seriously sometimes. Tell that to the poor souls huddling in their tents in Katmandu.

Whilst I think calling the police is somewhat over the top, I do agree with Mishap obstructing a woman's path is threatening and intimidating.

I suppose wolf whistling could be deemed as harmless, but it's often often a complete pain in the arse to the recipient. When I was in my early 20s and working in St Jame's Square in the West End, there was an awful lot of building work going on next to the office where I worked. I had to pass the site every morning and I remember getting a whole load of wolf whistling and the usual inane "cheer up luv it might never happen" Is there anything more banal than shouting that out to a complete stranger? It really annoyed me and put me in a bad temper before I'd even started work for the day. I shared an office with a German girl and we used to lunch together and pass the same building site, being a very positive and assertive person she was quite happy to go over and admonish them in a very direct and Germanic way with comments along the lines of "I don't know you, so please shut up with your remarks when I go by" It rendered a couple of them slacked jawed for a nano second!

What a lot of reactionary, condemnatory twaddle. The idea that if you can pose for a photo for the paper you can't be all that frightened by a group of men who pester you every day, is about equivalent to the idea that anyone wearing skimpy clothing is asking to be raped. The one has nothing to do with the other. Why shouldn't she tell her story and get her picture in the paper she has done nothing wrong and she didn't initiate any of the process. She complained about unacceptable behaviour.

I thought that too POGS

Good point, POGS.

trisher Nobody is desperate to be whistled at. They are just saying a simple wolf whistle would not bother them . In most case it is meant as a compliment.

Petallus The builders probably gave it no more thought than 'there's a pretty girl'.

Yes, sexual harassment is wrong when directed at either sex but lets not get carried away with what counts as such. Next it will be 'He she looked at me as I walked past'.

The front page spot in the DT, annsixty' is to enable its unreconstructed male chauvinist readers to sympathise with the builders by admiring a glamorous photo of Miss Smart. In The Times it's a less OTT photo on an inside page; they found a glamorous lady Everest mountaineer for their front page.