Words and phrases

Some languages do, and that is where they have to use far longer sentences. A Siamese becomes 'the one with slanted eyes that loves you one minute and scratches you the next'. A Persian becomes 'The one I keep sitting on thinking it is a fluffy cushion'. Or is that just my neighbour's?

It depends what is being discussed, and in what detail.

If it is what the cat did to the dog this morning, then words of "the cat sat on the mat" length and complexity are OK, but if we are comparing Persians and Siamese, then we can't say "Cats have longer fur than cats"

With all respect to trisher I don't believe this is anything to do with using longer or " more obscure words". It is about using the right words and as Eric Morecombe might say " in the right order place". If concepts are hard to grasp sometimes you have to persevere, the fault may lie in muddled thinking as much by the writer as by the reader. As janerowena says, there is satisfaction in using the exact word or idiom to convey what you want to say. I agree about the changing nature of language, particularly among the young - heaven help any "oldie" who tries to keep up or, worse, use their expressions, we usually get it wrong!
So it's not about one-upmanship nor is it about "dumbing down" but about clear expression and if occasionally idiomatic expressions, latinisms or literary references we have learned at school slip in, that should not be something to be ashamed of. Innit?

I had to look up 'spade'. I had never heard anyone use it. And I was 20 a very, very long time ago! I had however heard the longer version, 'as black as', just didn't connect the two.

I love words, I love trying to find the exact word to convey precisely what I wish to convey. I find the shrinking of our language rather sad, as a result. We have the richest language in the world, when it comes to meanings. Subtleties and nuances are what makes poetry and prose paint a picture in our minds, and someone who doesn't understand those words leads a poorer life, I feel. It adds another dimension to our understanding of the world we live in.

I have some sympathy for STB whose original concern was not in fact to do with the complexity of the language used but of the way we accept colloquialisms as understandable. People seem to have turned this into an "I can use longer, more obscure words than you can" post. The problem with some of the language we use is that it relies on understanding certain shared meanings and this can change depending upon the place you live, the age group you are and the people you mix with. And words change their meaning over time- hence the "spade" reference would probably not be understood by anyone under 20. We also have young people who use language in a way specific to themselves- at one time "sick" meant "good" but that is probably way out of date now. Where I disagree with STB is on her refusal to participate in trying to understand any of this. I think it is fascinating. I live in an area with a language of its own-Geordie- and have spent many hours trying to learn it.
Howway hinny divna fret aboot them auld lads and lasses aa diva knaw what there on aboot misel

I agree, Lilygran, and grasping a new concept is more difficult that just looking up a few words.

I think it's the concepts rather than the language that are creating the problem.

Sorry, this page " "Support your children with their spelling, grammar and punctuation"

Is it pure coincidence that down the RH side of my screen on the Active Threads page, I have advertisements for 2 books to "Help your children with grammar and spelling"!!!

My father used to have me proofread articles for his newspaper and other printing jobs. He would turn in his grave if he could see some of the atrocities in "even" so-called quality (?)broadsheets.
Peddle/pedal confusion, born/borne/bourne (which isn't even a word,) and many many others. Like Elegran because I know I can spell, my only sensation at spotting my typos too late is intense frustration!

I correct typos (if I see them!) because I don't like them. Other people looking down on my spelling or grammar comes second to that.

Typos - I never notice them until I have posted but hey ho, what's a few typos between fronds. I do wish we could edit after posting like FB

On the other hand, most of us bother to correct typos which other posters might think signify a deficiency in our spelling or grammar ability, as Soutra just did!

Agreed soutra It is not necessary to understand long words or esoteric logic to enjoy Gransnet. Thousands of people ignore the "intellectual" threads and concentrate on the others. Thousands more ignore the "emotional" threads, and thousands ignore the "frivolous" and cheeky" ones, and if you feel like it you can have a political argument one day and a giggle the next.

That is its strength, that there is something for everyone, whatever their personality or mood.

Sorry bl**dy iPad, grans without an apostrophe!

In the immortal words of another well-known member, FFS! It's nothing to do with genes! Instead of obsessing about whether or not you understand big words, read about willsandco, or smileless or any of the gran's coping with sorrow and adversity and get over yourself.

If we are having a conversation on the bus, or over the garden wall, and someone who is passing by stops to listen (or join in) we have no idea whether they are the world's best expert or a complete numpty on the subject. We assume that if they want to join in they have enough interest that they either already know about the subject or would like to know more. so the conversation continues. It doesn't stop for a lesson in basics.

If they know nothing about it and don't want to know more, then why are they wanting to join in in the first place? No-one wants to exclude them, but it is up to them to think and discuss, it is not up to everyone else to do that for them.

These threads are CONVERSATIONS not tutorials. Using the right words and referring to the appropriate concepts, and including links to things that illustrate what we are saying, or have more information than we can get into a post, is not showing off and being elitist, it is discussing the subject with our peers.

I meant the suggestion that it might be seen as elitist. That was all, but see it was not you who made it!, but Elegran re posting our scores! Apologies to both parties!

I think you should stop all this introspection and bringing the subject back to yourself all the time, soontobe. You'll have to accept that you're not perfect and just get on with it, like everyone else.

STB, I don't have any genes either, much prefer Crag Hoppers. (that was a joke BTW)
Just stop worrying about it, we are all different, just enjoy the threads you like, and ignore the ones you don't.

I thought pompa was serious too. I got it right!

I am feeling a bit weepy actually. I have realised that I have a gene missing that others have.

Soutra, thanks for the blessing, I could do with one right now. Irony??? not sure what you mean. if you are referring to setting up a thread to discuss interesting words, I was serious and here it is, already quite a few contributions.
www.gransnet.com/forums/writers_room/1215226-Increase-your-word-power

RQ - knitting is incomprehensible, it is the work of the devil.

I am beginning to slightly creep myself out with this thread actually.
I am beginning to see that I am not usual! Hence why so many posters seem not to be able to understand me and how I come across. I can see why they find me confusing. And assume I can do things that I cannot.
I have always known that I am good at some things and not others.
Now I can see that my characteristics probably dont follow a normal pattern.
I can for instance debate I think. I dont find thinking hard work at all. In fact I find it easy. But I dont find language in itself enjoyable. I just use it as a toll, nothing else.
I cant abide jargon.
But I do enjoy research. So long as the words are easy to follow.

If people bring things up and ask me questions, which Elegran did, then I feel obliged to answer. I feel awfully rude not doing so.

I wouldnt get irony if it slapped me in my face. I never have done. I dont get a lot of jokes either. Or a lot of films . I couldnt be a spy. I dont get bluff, never mind double bluff.
I am beginning to see that some problems are uniquely mine!

I looked up the word elitist just now. It didnt mean exactly what I thought it meant.

I have long since abandoned the idea of people bearing in mind a minority of people [probably many others who would love to join this site also, but dont because of many big words being used].