Smacking children

I was frequently smacked as a child from a very young age. Sometimes a clothes brush was used, it was very painful and left red marks on my bottom and legs. Nowadays my parents would be in huge trouble using this implement. It was normal, even in our middle class family. However, as a child I remember saying to my parents, at their amusement, that I would never smack my children. I never did, was never tempted to do such a violent act on a little person.

This subject always disturbs me. Of course violence towards children is inexcusable.

As a child I was neglected and abused by both my parents. I was punished by my mother for all sorts of 'crimes' I didn't know I'd committed. Mother had two sorts of punishment (1) severe slapping across the backs of my legs or (2) locking me in the coal shed (after telling me there were rats in there) or just going out and leaving me locked in my bedroom for hours. To this day I do not remember the slapping's but 50 years on I remember the terror of being locked in the coal shed or bedroom.

I worry that if mothers are too frightened to punish their children (in the way any animal would do to their young if necessary) they may resort to premeditated psychological punishments that don't just leave red slap marks on legs but scars on the mind for ever more.

I await my metaphorical slaughter….

Boheminam Firstly I am sorry to hear what you had to endure.

It is not the case that slapping or mental abuse are the only two choices when disciplining a child.

As I have said there are many far more acceptable ways to punish a child and I am sure most parents are aware of and use those methods. Most 'normal' ( for want of a better word) and loving parents would not dream of subjecting a child to the horror your Mother subjected you to. She obviously had some sort of problem herself although that is no excuse.

Some have posted that they have not assaulted their children but have smacked them.

I have to say that smacking, slapping, hitting, what ever you would like to call it, is an assault. You cannot get away from the meaning of the word.

There is no way of trying to tone down the act of a physical assault by calling it "a tap" or "a slap" or "a smack" or anything else.

The degree of force used might be different but we should never pretend it it is not an assault. If someone in the street slaps, smacks, hits, punches, or headbutts you in the street it is an assault.

That situation does not change because a smack is often a parent to child "domestic incident". That is what a lot of violent men try to claim.

It is an assault and we should not fail to think about it in those terms, and yes I have done it in very rare moments of stress or frustation and I am not proud of it.

Have we all got the word? It's an Assault

Exactly, Nelliemoser. You couldn't get away with assaulting a member of the public and saying 'it was only a slap'! Therefore how can it be right for a defenceless child?
The really odd thing is that everyone who smacks would be outraged if anyone else smacked them- presumably it is the skewed thinking that it is OK for them to do it because they 'belong' to them or they love them!
Teachers can't smack any more, men can't hit their wives. It only appears to be parents can hit their children that is left as a 'right' to the parent. (I would say that every child has the right not to be hit in the place that they should feel the safest).

nellie I disagree with you: from the dictionary an assault (noun) is a sudden and violent attack.

A smack (noun) is a trace, a touch or a suggestion of something.

So I would suggest that's why some of us use the word smack.

I'm not talking legal definitions here of course.

I would expect that a 4 yr old sees it as sudden- and because of their size it is quite violent. One reason for not 'smacking' a 12 yr old is that the smack that would make a 4 yr old think, and perhaps cry, wouldn't hurt a 12 yr old. It is all relative.

It all seems to tie in with the rule of the size of stick you could beat your wife with!!

I recollect reading somewhere that in mediaeval London a stick for beating apprentices had to be thin enough to pass through an alderman's finger-ring. Autre temps, autres moeurs.

Grannyknot "from the dictionary an assault (noun) is a sudden and violent attack. "

Which, if you are a small child, is what a quick slap feels like.
The danger of a quick slap being that you may not control your slap in away that presents harm.

I think it is only understandable in the heat of the moment reaction to danger or such but as a punishment that has been thought about absolutely No.

Of course as a planned punishment absolutely no. Never ever justified.

It is perfectly understandable in the heat of the moment- but you should be able to apologise - realise it was very poor parenting and resolve to do differently next time.

I used to smack mine when they were little, as that had been the accepted way of disciplining children when I was a child, and I knew no other way of dealing with bad behaviour.

I wouldn't do it now, largely because although I don't think it did them any harm, I don't think it achieved anything either when used as a regular punishment.

The DGC are not smacked, and at the moment, time-out, or the threat of it, is far more effective in controlling their behaviour than smacking ever was with my DSs.

That said, I still think that there are rare occasions when an instant response is needed and quick smack can be the best option, and I wouldn't bat an eyelid if I saw a parent do that in the street.

If I saw a parent smacking a child in public my eyelids would certainly bat and I would wonder what happens at home.

Have just read through this thread... cannot imagine why you would hit a child that was already crying at night... and rubylady - your mum gave yourself and your brother a pasting just for coming home at lunchtime from primary school just cos she was asleep? Did she have a guilty conscience and doing something more than sleeping

If I see a parent smacking in public my immediate thought is 'if they do that in public what do they do in private?'

NannyGoat You could have a point there actually. I only found out off my dad recently (my dad never bad mouthed my mum) that my mum had an affair when we were little. She used to sneak off and meet him near our home and leave us with my dad while she was doing her canoodling behind all our backs. He would never say anything at the time and I only found out due to me asking him recently and I was surprised. They divorced about 12 years ago. He had an affair too, but she made sure that we knew about it in glorious detail for years afterwards. They should have split then or forgive it. As it was, it was like a war zone, and they had my baby sister in that time too. It was all she knew growing up.

I say they had my sister. My baby brother was conceived first. She wanted to divorce my dad due to the affair. I was about 14 at the time, my brother 16. She wanted to maintain ownership of the house. She planned to become pregnant to keep the house for another 16 years while the baby grew up as she would lose it with both of us due to our ages. My baby brother was born at 36 weeks and died at 12 hours old. My sister was born 13 months later and had emergency heart surgery at 2 days old and then got a life threatening infection. She came home at 5 weeks old. It was a horrendous time. I was 14 and 15 years old with both babies. I am the only one who goes to visit my brother's grave.

I must be in a minority of (nearly) one then - there are occasions when I see a young child in the street behaving absolutely appallingly because it can't go where it wants/do what it wants, while the parents plead with it in vain. At those times, the thought always goes through my mind that a quick smack would do the trick.

Rubylady: I am so sorry for what you had to go through. It must have been awful, and has clearly left its mental scars. I was lucky - although we were smacked when little (probably not very often), I was never in any doubt that my parents were on our side and there for us no matter what.
Mrs Pickle: Although I'm still in favour of the occasional smack (and I mean occasional), I can't imagine why someone would smack a child for crying in bed. It would be like smacking them for bedwetting - pointless, cruel and counter-intuitive.

Occasional smacking is good. But it must be for a really good reason. Perhaps behaviour that is dangerous and verbal warnings haven't worked?

I agree Galen that's what I always did.

But other behaviour.....I was in a local shop behind a mum with a little boy who kept running off when she had to wait in the queue...she kept whispering to him and I couldn't make out if she was trying to bribe him or threaten him - but the one word I did not hear was 'NO'.
I don't hear it very much these days.

Darling daughter started by saying you shouldn't say NO to a child! I've noticed recently that it seems to have crept into the vocabulary!

Just curious. If your Grandchildren were with you and did something dangerous and verbal warnings had not worked would you smack them ?
A) if that's what their parents do.
B) if that's what you think is the right thing to do.

I am still not convinced that hitting any one is a ' good' way for any adult to behave !

Ginny: Yes, if it felt like the most appropriate action.

I've done it once with DGS (about 2.5 - 3 yrs old at time) - not for something dangerous either, but for a wilful act against his little sister, out in the street where time-out wasn't an option, and reasoning had clearly failed because he had already been warned not to do what he did .
He didn't repeat it again after the smack, and now, a year on, he knows that I mean what I say, and the threat of time out is usually very effective. I've no plans to ever do it again, but wouldn't rule it out completely.

I did feel guilty because his parents don't smack (normally), so I felt I'd gone against their principles. However, I obviously told them what had happened and they admitted that actually they have done the same themselves once, in a similar situation, and that I'd done the right thing.

Deep down, I probably knew that his parents would understand. Would I have done it if I'd known that they had extremely strong anti-smacking views? I don't know. Possibly - when the situation arose, I think that my reaction was too quick for me to take that into account, and his parents could have reacted very differently when told!

This has set me thinking - how times change: fifteen years ago I ran French clubs for children, and quite a few parents would bring along their offspring and tell me to stand no nonsense from them, that I had their permission to smack them if the need arose!
Obviously, I never did and never would have, but it was clear that smacking was still fairly widely accepted at that point.

I wonder if parents ever say that to teachers/club leaders now!