Calling Vegetarians

Excellent post, annie.

When did I say I despised meat eaters? Not respecting people who eat dead animals is different from despising them. I reserve despising for people who deserve it, people like IDS, for one.

Because most (all?) meat eaters also eat vegetarian foods, anniezz, and the OP was asking for ideas. I'm still hoping she tells us all what she makes and how to make it ourselves. Omni means all. Omnivores eat everything edible—everything vegetarians eat and everything vegetarians don't eat. Quite a simple idea really. It puzzles me why people sometimes don't appear to understand that.

The people making the most objections to others' food choices on this thread are the vegetarians (some of them), not the omnivores.

Whenever anyone gets hot under the collar about an issue, I always think it means they are feeling uncomfortable about some basic belief they hold which is being offended.

It seems a shame to let things become personal and it's great to try to research and find facts if we can, but so often clinical trials simply offer up the answer the researcher wanted because of the way the trial was funded, because of the way the group/s were selected, because of the kind of 'evidence' which was used and the way it was collected. Sadly, these days there seems to be such conflicting advice that comes out of trials, especially when it is mangled by the media that I wonder what the point is anymore of relying on any of it.

The thing is, I feel, that the world is bigger than us. And what we do in our home in these days of large-scale farming and international markets actually matters. It didn't matter when we went to the butcher who bought his meat from the farmer down the road, when the animals were fed wholesome diets not contaminated by drugs and not produced by a conglomerate more interested in profit than welfare, when they were killed on site or nearby thus minimising the toxins produced by the fear and stress of long journeys to abattoirs, when they weren't kept in their thousands in indoor barns because it was convenient and profitable (and thus needing to be fed antibiotics and growth promoters throughout their short lives because otherwise they'd be endlessly ill). Stopping to think about these things is surely a good example to set to the young people around us who are going to inherit this troubled world. And maybe we will safeguard their future health too.

Yesterday I was in the Co-op and I heard, behind me, a young mother saying to her child 'so, what d'you want, shepherds pie or sausage and mash?'. I glanced over my shoulder, they were by the processed food counter and what they were looking at was ready meals. So very sad that so many youngsters don't know how to produce simple good food from simple, cheap ingredients.

If you decide to eat meat, fine. But why have so many meat eaters invaded a thread called 'Calling Vegetarians'? Answers on a postcard stuck on your wall.....

Good article from the American Institute of Cancer Research.

"We don’t really know how much of the health protection of a vegetarian diet comes from avoiding meat or dairy and how much is due to the nutrients, fiber and protective compounds in plant foods such as vegetables, fruits, whole grains, beans and nuts. Most vegetarians do tend to eat more of these healthy foods than non-vegetarians. But replacing meat-oriented meals with these whole plant foods will almost surely have an entirely different health impact than meatless meals based mainly on processed refined grains, with limited variety of vegetables and plenty of sweets and soft drinks."

the above is for'nightowl

There have been no studies which prove that vegans are healthier because they are vegans. To prove anything you have to have a control group and you would have to find a group of vegans who are smokers. Vegans are usually non smokers and this group is healthier no matter what they eat.
How on earth have you got the impression that I don't think humans can live on a wide variety of foods. I see this all around me - especially at the supermarkets.

I am not getting into a discussion if you feel it does not have its place on GN. Perish the thought that we could have a serious discussion on gransnet.
Perhaps I should move to the Philosophy Forum.

Cheers, petallus. Good post.

We are omnivores

Darling daughter is pescovegetarian. Her two daughters seem to be the same as they just will not eat meat. Not too fond of fish either.

I think you are pesco-vegetarian if you eat fish but no meat , lacto-ovo if you eat milk and eggs but no meat and vegan if just plant food.

All this discussion about vegetarianism reminds me of when DD2 was about six or seven and disliked vegetables, especially broccoli. She announced that she was going to become a 'meatatarian'.
Nowadays she eats very little meat and not a lot of dairy food either.

Margaret please don't let us get into a discussion about whether or not humans need meat or whether it is 'brain food'. That may be your opinion but the argument is simply not supported by any evidence. You can probably quote me studies that prove meat is necessary for good health. I can then show you studies that prove that vegetarians (or vegans) are far healthier than those that eat meat. Let's just accept that humans can live on a very wide variety of foods and can get everything they need from a variety of different diets, a vegetarian diet (or vegan) being just one.

thatbags I didn't say I personally despised those people I gave as examples in my post. I was saying that there is a lot of despising going on in our society and it is probably just part of the human range of emotions to feel contempt under certain circumstances.

I am surprised you are shocked by this.

I am quite prepared to accept the distinction between despising someone and despising their behaviour. It's a bit like the Christian idea of hate the sin not the sinner isn't it?

Sometimes, however, whether I should or not, despise/feel contempt for some people (not just their behaviour). Predatory paedophiles for instance.

I'm happy with that.

What's going on? I can't access the Active page and all the thread headings start with $breakStringTool.FixThreadName

I do appreciate that a lot of vegatarians love animals and don't want them slaughtered.
There is a way of farming animals which is humane and all the meat I buy is from those kind of farmers. It is not difficult as I live in the part of the EU which has the highest proportion of organic food grown and farmed.

But it is more expensive and it would never do to feed the world that way. there would be more starvation and more children getting too little protein.

My friends are vegatarian and my nephew brought up 2 children in Ireland as vegans at a time (1990), when this was not popular at all.

My friends cooks ham for their grandchildren if required and my nephew has given up as a vegan; one of his sons now 26, eats meat and the other is a fish and eggs vegetarian.
Meat protein is a brain food. Our brains developed because we are meat eaters. We have the teeth for eating meat and the rest of our digestive sytem is guaged to digest meat - not grass. For that you need two stomachs.

thatbags I'm not sure what you think I was saying but please believe that my post above was not aimed at you or at any individual here on gransnet. It was a very general point resulting from years of dealing with the 'gotcha' people in everyday life who seem to think my choice to be a vegetarian is some kind of personal insult to them.

nightowl, you are mistaken if you think I do anything more than disagree that being vegetarian is better than being omnivore. I have reasons for thinking thus just as you have reasons for thinking, and acting with regard to food choices, as you do. I respect that and I do not disrespect you or any other vegetarian.

Someone saying they don't respect people who disagree with them is on an altogether different plane. One that shocks me, actually.

Speak for yourself, petallus. I might despise behaviour (such as that of ISIS members) but I don't go around despising people, and certainly not for making food choices that I disagree with, which is what we were talking about here.

I wish you joy of your contempt.

As an omnivore I don't despise anyone's eating choices - my sister has been a strict vegetarian (no meat or fish products) for nearly 30 years so it's something I'm used to catering for.

What I am irritated by are the pretend veggies - you know the ones who make a song and dance and great pronouncements but are caught eating a bacon sarnie! Or they'll just have a little bit of chicken ... that well-known vegetable.

As an aside, my sister was horrified to discover that the Dalai Lama eats meat

Good post petallus. It's the reason I try to avoid all discussions about the rights and wrongs of different food choices. If people want to discuss it, fine. If they just want to try to find that 'gotcha' moment (where my choice to be a vegetarian will come crashing down at my feet) then I can't be bothered.

I do agree that I'm surprised there is not more fuss about the way animals are treated and killed. It makes me laugh when we are described as 'a nation of animal lovers', though to be honest it's not at all funny.

To be realistic thatbags most of us go around despising people who make choices we would not.

For instance, if they drape their houses with flags, vote for UKIP, visit prostitutes even if it is know they have been coerced, lie to get their children into faith schools. The list is endless.

As for vegetarianism, I have been veggie for about 35 years. It started when I began to feel squeamish about handling and eating meat.

If I suddenly fancied meat again I would make sure it was organic and the animal had been treated well.

I don't despise meat eaters but sometimes wonder why there is not more protest about bad treatment of animals who are reared and killed for food. I once heard a lecture by someone who worked in a abattoir (sp) and it was gruesome.

Finally, some meat eaters are quite hostile to vegetarians. I'm not sure why. I've had to endure a fair amount of jeering of the 'don't you want to eat the cute little bunny wabbit' kind over the years.

Your lack of respect for people who make choices you don't like is evident in your posting 'tone', dj. So I was pretty much on the mark earlier. Enjoy your despising.

I'm not that old! Venetian Drs did wear beaked masks stuffed with spices to ward off the plague A!
Another plague was of course cholera, transmitted by contaminated water supplies. Still endemic today.
As is polio, with Pakistan playing silly,B******s

Hope gagagran is still not reading this!

I do hope they do not, Galen. My family always laugh at me because I would not watch any of the Jurassic Park films because it's too close to reality. I read a book about how to recreate dinosaurs and it said it could only happen by accident. That, to my mind, is the problem.
There's a plague cemetery in York. I steered clear of that as well, not going on any of the walks to show us about it.

At least you were not a quack, Galen, and did not have to wear one of those silly beaks.