Inappropriate behaviour.

I guess it's a very confusing world. I advocate the rights of women at every opportunity I can. I believe passionately in equality and a fairer world. However, I constantly see women quite happily use their sexual assets to earn masses of money. I see women more than happy to strip off for mens' mags and it makes my 'job' of fighting for the rights of women a very difficult one. Sex sells, that's a fact.
My grown up son is a decent lad, however, he is sick of being passed over as boyfriend material because young women say again and again that they are only really attracted to the 'bad boys' - who basically treat them like crap.
The fight for true equality will never be won until women unite and genuinely desire a fairer, safer world for women. Women quite sadly, frequently give very mixed messages to men. We are still quite a basic, primitive species and we have a long, long way to go in our evolutionary journey before there is true sexual equality, if that objective can ever truly be achieved. The 'strongest' will always exploit the 'weakest '.

That did spring to mind, although it has been said that the story was made up.

Mars bar Eleothan?

I seem to remember some fairly racy stories about Marianne Faithful in the 60's so I'm not sure if it's appropriate for her - or anyone else for that matter - to refer to other women as behaving like "sluts".

From personal experience I realise how young children in particular can be psychologically affected by older, bigger people.

For about a month I kept having my milk from outside the back gate stolen. I suspected 3 young brothers who would pass our house on the way to school. I saw the youngest with a pint of milk in his hand and I crept after him to see where he put it and it was hidden in some bushes. I waited for them the next day and caught them in the act, the two oldest ran away and the little one stood at my front door (stable door) where I explained to him we couldn't have our cereal in the morning, as he had stolen our milk. I wanted him to know the consequences of what he had done.

He just stood there transfixed with only the top part of the door open so I couldn't touch him or stop him. But he asked if he could leave as he would be late for school. It really worried me that he felt trapped at my house just by my words not my deeds.

Needless to say the milk was never taken again.

HollyDaze your husband was very strong and brave. I don't remember even telling my husband about this at the time. As mentioned above, we just accepted it. Why?

Hmmmm....all racially different from me, I see. I was the clean, studious, vulnerable white girl they could direct their anger at. Strangely, I am not bigoted. I must have tried to understand, somehow. Stupid.

Your experiences posted here have brought to mind some awful situations of my own, in the late 60's, early 70's when I transferred from all girls to co-ed school. One event was of a sexual nature that I never reported even to my sisters, let alone parents or school officials. I ask myself now-why not?

In gym class, a gang of racially angry girls bullied me incessantly, ripping off my snap-up 'whites' in the locker room, exposing me and my terror. I realize now that I probably represented the 'establishment' they so hated at the time. I had no skills on how to handle this. In that same time, I was the only girl who couldn't escape in a classroom targeted by angry boys beating up all the white boys in class. Horrifying, honestly. I think I believed it was the norm for public inter-racial schools.

At my first job in university library after I got my BA, I was again targeted by a huge, horrible black man in a management position who caught me anywhere he could and rubbed me up. I reported to my (male) manager and after months of this, finally went to the (male) head librarian who called the man off me. He kept his job, of course.

Strangely, I am a very strong woman and don't understand my younger, vulnerable self. My DD would never allow such abuse!!

I haven't thought of this in decades. I would hope to fight back now!

I think that there is a world of difference between 'behaving inappropriately' and the awful assault that you were subjected to Hollydaze.
Thank heavens you had your husbands support, and yes, it is beholding to all parents to educate their children in suitable methods for keeping themselves safe and how to proceed should the worse happen.

How awful for you Holly I bet that doctor carried on in the practice or was quietly retired.

When I hear how young children were abused by priests and then the church covered up for them it makes my blood boil, especially if they died before being brought to justice.

Men have always behaved inappropriately with girls/young women and maybe some day it will change but it still goes on.

When I was 20 years old (and will admit quite a naive 20 year old), I had gone to see the local GP as I had swollen glands in my throat. He told me to strip to the waist, which I thought was odd but I trusted him. He then fondled my breasts and I stood there mortified but too afraid to say anything just in case he was feeling for other swollen glands and that I would wrongly accuse him of something. When I told my husband, he went flying down to the surgery and raised all hell. We changed surgeries after that. Several other incidents later, I became very capable in dealing with gropers. I'm pleased to say that my daughter was raised to be aware of inappropriate behaviour from professionals and she, in turn, has advised her daughters. Sad that we even have to really isn't it.

I know there are a few of you feetlebaum....my DH included......but back in the day there were a few who seemed to see it as almost their right.
My view on these historic cases is that if it was little more than a grope....nothing deeply unpleasant...and you did not do or say anything at the time...then you should view it as dead and buried. Its a bit different if you tried to report it and where brushed aside or you lost a job for making trouble, but times were different then and generally our mothers warned us about such behaviour and we developed strategies to keep such people at a distance.
There were a few girls who allowed themselves to be caught 'behind the filing cabinets' by well known Lotharios despite all the warnings and they were deemed pretty silly. Yes, its disgusting when you look back but we all played by those rules and its almost anachronistic to view such behaviour through 21st century eyes.
Its why I get very cross with young Mums who dress there little girls up like Barbies at barely 3 ....we have moved on from all that 'pretty girls only get married' and should teach our daughters and granddaughters that's its their skills, talents and personalities that are far more important.

As a chap I must say it never occurred to me to grope a stranger!

Great story, HildaW!

I too worked in an office in the 70s....a bank...so very misogynistic. Managed to keep away from most of the trouble but get really fed up with the unspoken rule that girls rarely went beyond the clerical grade 2.

Can clearly remember one colleague who was a very attractive girl and did have a bit of trouble in the way of lewd comments from one particular male middle management type. She put a stop to it though. One day he had said something to her only she could hear so she dramatically threw herself across his desk saying loudly...'Ok! take me now!!.' He was so embarrassed that he never repeated his behaviour.
Thankfully there were no repercussions for her - it was in the late 70s and attitudes were slowly changing and it was a busy office containing quite a few other girls willing to back her up if there had been anything unpleasant.

I can remember being in my 20s and working up in London in the late 70s and on occasions being pawed, by some men at work, it seemed to be par for the course. It was an incredibly sexist environment and the Dave Lee Travis type of response, of "I'm just tactile" is typical of that ilk, coupled with the indignant hands being thrown up and a fake hurt expression definitely resonates. The more aggressive type would come out with "you must be a lesbian" should women have the temerity to ask them to keep their hands to their selves.

Having said all that, I, like many of my contemporaries survived and with more nous, it made me more aware of how to deal and head off dodgy situations and I certainly wouldn't have rendered myself vulnerable in getting drunk, I think most of us knew we had to be in charge of our faculties to deal with sleeze bags!

For all that, I would hate to be a young girl/woman now, I feel really sorry for them, the pernicious sexist attitudes that seem to kick in as soon as they hit double figures. Technology has of course come into play in the most awful way and that's certainly something we never had to put up with. I was a very innocent teenager, I went to an all girls school and in retrospect am glad I was able to stay more of a child and unscathed certainly until mid teens. Nor do I remember having the distorted hang ups about my appearance that many girls seem to have today.

It was interesting to hear Marianne Faithful, who many will remember was right at the epicentre of the swinging sixties, remark that in her opinion some of the role models of today, Mily Cyrus, Rhianna etc behave like sluts. Undoubtedly the image they project doesn't help. I particularly dislike the message hip hop music puts out regarding women. When I was in my 20s, page 3 of The Sun particularly riled me, in my opinion it reduced women to objects and I'd like to think that young women today would object strongly to women in mainstream videos shaking what they like to call their "booty" as objectionable, but it seems to me it's something to be admired.

I do think things are worse for women now with boys not being taught respect for girls, and girls not being taught respect for themselves. A casual encounter after a night out is expected. If you look at most newspapers and magazines the female celebrities are showing as much flesh as they can so is it surprising the girls think this is the way to act?

We were subjected to groping and most of us learned to deal with it (I was more fortunate than some in that my ex-soldier father taught me some basic self defence!). The case of Travis shows that groping was almost considered normal behaviour.

I think I have told the story before of a friend who was on the tube when she felt someone groping her, she grabbed the hand held it up in the air and shouted "Does this belong to anyone - I just found it on my body" The groper quickly left at the next station.

train not trained.

Chloe I'm glad your daughters would protect themselves.

I still remember when I was about 16 being on my usual train from Birmingham home and the lights failed on the trained. Some chap would I knew, but disliked, took the opportunity to put his hand up my skirt. I was so taken aback I did not have the courage to slap his horrid smirking face. Occasionally I think about this and other dodgy situations from those days and would love to be able to confront those men now and have the opportunity to bop them one.

I can remember travelling to work on the tube in the sixties and when it was particularly busy and crowded, men taking the opportunity to grope you. I never had the courage to say anything and was unable to move away, sort of expected and accepted it then. I would hope that isn't the case now with young women, I hope they have the courage to confront and challenge couldn't see either of my DDs putting up with such behaviour .

I think things are worse for young women now. Yes, we had to put up with groping and it didn't occur to us, or rather we knew that we would just be laughed at if, we complained, but even taking into account the impunity with which people like Cyril Smith and Jimmy Saville could commit the most dreadful assaults, on a purely day to day basis girls are more at risk of sexual abuse now than ever before.

Far too many young boys and men base their expectations of a woman's sexual behaviour from watching pornography at every level from Play Boy to the vilest pornography. Young girls are expected to be compliant to her boyfriends sexual desires other wise they is castigated as frigid, to say the least of the abuse that is received. Girls are coerced into being photographed undertaking sexual acts or exposing themselves, photos later used to humiliate them by having them circulated among those they knew or published more widely. Cyber bullying, much of it, sex and attractiveness based can destroy a girls self-esteem and has driven some to suicide.

The lad culture at university, as shown in the papers in the last week is gross. Nothing I faced at university, and I was at a northern technical university where women were a very distinct minority, compares with what young women face today.

I wish things were better for girls, but I'm not sure they are. If Oxford and Cambridge Universities feel it necessary to include compulsory workshops on sexual harrassment/assault issues - we're all doomed!

Phew, glad I went to an all girl school.
I can't imagine young girls standing for it now.

I think they are - we just seemed to put up with groping ! Even male teachers at school rubbing their paws on your bra strap- we all knew who he was, but never dawned on us to tell our mums ! Two of our teachers openly dated 6th form twins, and one got pregnant - he carried on teaching there !