Feeling Feminine?[hmmm]

Tbh, * bags* makes me feel like an overgrown cart horse as well

Flick I feel the same. When I first met my MIL who was bsirly five for ans slight and extremely frilly, dainty,and 'feminine' I felt like a cart horse.
She and I never got on. I worked:- she was a 'woman's place is in the home looking after husband and children'.
I felt that would be a waste of my 5 year medical training. DH agreed with me!( and he was :-
1) a better cook
2) earned half what I earned!)

In my trundle across Scotland today I people watched. All the women I saw looked feminine to me and all the men looked masculine in some way or other. Some of each gender were also attractive. So, yes, I still think femininity is part of being female. Those pictures of people (models?) deliberately made to look rather masculine are convincing at first glance but it's easy to pick out what differentiates the genders if you look for more than a second or two and, especially, as soon as people move. As for the ones on body-building steroids and god knows what, they are just freaks, whichever gender they belong to—the exceptions that prove the rule that females are feminine and males are masculine (unless they happen to be so weird that they hardly look human at all).

Talked to DD2 about this too and she made an interesting comment: for her, she and no-one else defines her femininity. I feel the same. It has nothing whatsoever to do with frills and superficialities.

There is nothing negative about them, but it is when the lack of these attributes is considered a failing and casts doubts on their success as a woman.

These attributes are all ones I have always lacked, although I had a sister who was very dainty and I think would have been described as very feminine. I was not the lesser woman for not having these attributes - and as someone said at her funeral, her dainty exterior belied the will of steel that lay behind it.

I agree with FEETLE.

What's negative about 'girly', 'feminine', 'pretty' and the like? As a man I see these terms as pretty positive - when applied to those of the feminine gender, that is.

I agree, Mamie. I've been reading this thread with interest, and it made me think about the the fact that many of the terms used to describe women have a negative connotation - girly, feminine, pretty etc. In a world where gender is more fluid, and traditional male and female roles have become interchangeable, it is difficult to describe what makes a woman (or a man), and it's different for all of us. I see no paradox in wearing heels and being a 'strident feminist': I am simply me!

I think the problem with the word "feminine" is the connotations that it carries with it. Feminine wiles, feminine guile, feminine helplessness etc. I think in many uses there is a strong suggestion of women who use sex and sexual attraction to manipulate people and get their own way. I used to find any attempt to use any of these in the workplace completely abhorrent and I wouldn't choose women with those behaviours as friends either.
For all of these reasons (and because I read The Feminine Mystique as part of my journey towards feminism in the 1970s), I find it very difficult to have any positive view of the word "feminine".

AlieOxon

No reaction to my last post.........good!

I notice our definitions don't include deferring to men?

Okay, I'll give this a go.

I don't think deference to men was about being feminine - it was more about subjugation of women (not that all women went along with that ideology!) in general.

Holly.... respect!

Thank you Oldgreymare

Coolgran

Holly's link to Audrey Hepburn = IMO in Audrey Hepburn's pic she looks sooooooo feminine.

I have a sneaky feeling you could have dressed Audrey Hepburn in anything and she would still have looked feminine!

absent I think you are right about 'masculine' being less used these days, and I think it applies to 'feminine' too, except when both words are used to describe the gender of words in particular languages.

Sixty years ago men's and women's appearances were quite strictly differentiated according to the social mores - men has short back and sides haircuts and women rarely wore trousers. Apparently the journalist Nancy Spain caused a sensation, if not scandal, when she appeared in public wearing 'trews'.

But by 1970 men had long curly hair and wore flowered shirts and pink sweaters, women routinely wore trousers and some had very short hair, so there had been a blurring of the lines, if one is allowed to use that expression.

This change in attitudes towards clothing and appearance has of course been mirrored by attitudes to the roles of men and women in society. Although there is a way to go, the barriers to women entering the professions and business have been largely broken down - for example more than half of medical undergraduates are women. At the same time men are more accepting that domestic and childcare responsibilities should be shared.

I think that's why we've had some trouble defining 'feminine' - because during our lifetimes, the sense in which the word was used (to imply female helplessness and submission) has largely, and rightly, been abandoned.

I have noticed with interest that masculine seems to be out of favour as an adjective, apart from its grammatical use in other languages. Feminine still pops up all over the place although there is not always agreement about what the term implies. It seems, however, if someone wants to describe a man (favourable) as masculine, he's called macho these days, or a woman (unfeminine), she's called butch. The latter, of course, having associations with lesbianism in popular culture.

Holly's link to Audrey Hepburn =
IMO in Audrey Hepburn's pic she looks sooooooo feminine.

Not talking about right clothes for the jobElegran I do believe the post was that these women don"t look unfemine in combat/fatigues.To me they DO.

I commented that women in combats/fatigues look butch IMO.



ps that is not all I wish to say I have comments on other posts however, I am in the middle of COMBAT WARRIORS and am being called, to keep them company as MY LOVELY has gone to see NC play sO G/MA is in charge.
x

Holly.... respect!

janer I can relate to that, my first ex used to say "You're not coming out looking like that!"

I have found this fascinating, and it did make me think. I feel that it is as much in the way you move and hold yourself, as in the way you dress or wear makeup. My son had a friend at school who was so obviously in the wrong body that it made me want to weep. He moved and held himself differently from a very young age. Not many boys have a lightness of movement and a dance in their step. not all girls have it, but it's very noticeable when a boy does.

DBH says he doesn't care what I wear, but I know that subconsciously, he does. He prefers my hair in certain styles, dreads me having it cut shorter, loves it when I dress up and treats me differently. I have studied his reactions very carefully - because Ex used to refuse to take me out with him if I didn't look feminine enough. I nearly got abandoned in Rotterdam because I bought a pair of flat shoes as my heels were hurting.

No reaction to my last post.........good!

Back later when I have given my "ANGELS" their tea.
Want to say Something !!

Nonu - can't stand by and see Ana take the flak for stating the bloomin obvious

I cannot believe that some people cannot see the difference between being female and being feminine! They are not the same thing.

Photos of women - feminine or unfeminine?:

https://thewrongbathroom.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/butchsuit-500x332.jpg

www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fru.fishki.net%2Fpicsw%2F022010%2F26%2Fpost%2Fbodibilder%2Fbodibildershi019.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.bodybuilding.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D122661381&h=685&w=550&tbnid=Ke2yJDpRIQmBkM%3A&zoom=1&docid=3anGY9v7TteP5M&ei=g0jzU4fOCNOe7AbFooCgDA&tbm=isch&client=firefox-a&ved=0CCYQMygeMB44ZA&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=960&page=5&start=112&ndsp=31

www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fhealthylifestyle-news.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F05%2Ffemale_worldwide_bodybuilder_competition_winner.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fhealthylifestyle-news.com%2F2014%2F05%2Ffemale-worldwide-bodybuilder-competition-winner%2F&h=560&w=372&tbnid=2HT7ADepAroXZM%3A&zoom=1&docid=xGgaqAUJZfC_OM&ei=g0jzU4fOCNOe7AbFooCgDA&tbm=isch&client=firefox-a&ved=0CE8QMyhHMEc4ZA&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=1300&page=6&start=143&ndsp=31

A collection of photographs of women classed as unfeminine (some on this link I think do look feminine - others do not).

www.pinterest.com/asegun/down-the-rabbit-hole/

Having long hair isn't always the key as this photo shows:

www.thedivineaddiction.com/divine/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/aahburneyes.jpg

Being female and being feminine are not synonymous.

HOLLY
BIG &

Feminine: having characteristics that are traditionally thought to be typical of or suitable for a woman: With his long dark eyelashes, he looked almost feminine. The current style in evening wear is soft, romantic, and feminine. Her clothes are always very feminine.

femininity /ˌfem.əˈnɪn.ɪ.ti/ US /-ə.t̬i/ noun [U] usually approving › Long hair was traditionally regarded as a sign of femininity.

So says the Cambridge English Dictionary.

The Oxford English Dictionary:

Of a personal attribute, an action, etc.: characteristic of, befitting, or regarded as appropriate to the female sex. Of a woman: having or exhibiting the qualities, behaviour, or appearance considered as typical of the female sex; womanly.

Of a thing: having characteristics conventionally associated with the female sex, such as prettiness and delicacy.

To make feminine in nature or character; to feminize.

1949 Chester (Pa.) Times 21 Sept. 12/5 (advt.) Man-tailored pyjamas, feminined with gleaming satin stripes.

HOLLY
BIG