Geriatric??

I like the "in a senile kind of way" in merlot's poem. I asked my son today if he will mind if I go slightly dotty but in a nice way. He said no, but to put it off as long as possible. Fair enough I think.

'Newist' I admire your strength of character and how you would not be dominated by you Ex.

janeainsworth Thank you.

I am talking about the present not the past.

I was also not confining the discussion to the past.

Nobody is stamping any discussion out, or trying to impose uniformity, but when someone makes sweeping statements like 'we all do it' and then accuses those who disagree as 'not being honest', then, yes, we do protest vehemently.

Yet that is exactly what happened (BIB)

Why do you (a generic 'you') find it necessary to protest 'vehemently'? Not in the least bit concerned about why someone would feel the way they do? Or is it more important that those who 'protested vehemently' (which stopped the contribution of another FM in its tracks) 'win the day' in the shortest time possible?

Not one of you asked for clarification of why Silverfish felt the way she did, why would she think that way about her own gender; it read as being more important that some have the perfect marriage and it was, therefore, representative of marriage as a whole - which, of course, it isn't.

It makes me think of the saying: there are none so blind as those who will not see.

newist

I can relate to your post very well as my first husband was of much the same mindset. He told me 'I have bought and paid for you' (he meant the marriage licence) and I had to ask for, and justify, every penny I needed/wanted. Any mention of me wanting to find paid work resulted in huge arguments and him threatening to leave his job so that we would have to 'live on the measly amount that you are able to earn'.

I divorced him too.

Well said Holly.
I must point out that my husband was a lovely guy, we got on well and were best friends, he died by my side in his sleep at a young age. If I went shopping in the short time that I didn't work, he would say get anything you like as long as the bills were paid. He was a lovely person no-one could replace him. All I said was that perhaps I wanted new carpets or something expensive that he might query, I would 'butter him up, with a romantic night or just cooking his favourite meals. I cannot think that anyone has not done that before. You lot have all blown this out of proportion. I have also said that I would not marry again as I hate housework, which is true but probably if I met another lovely guy I would.
Just Im not looking. Please don't be so bitchy, an honest debate is another thing.

It does make me wonder about how exposed some people are the realities of life for many women - in Britain. My first husband saw a working wife as demeaning to his ability to provide for his family. He saw any attempt I made at finding work as an attempt 'to wear the trousers' thus, once more, undermining his ability as a man; I would also add it meant a significant loss of control as well (but I was too young to recognise that at that early age).

That's what I mean Holly, if anyone does not work how can they be exposed to the realities of life, they only see what on the media.

I suppose a lot of it comes down to upbringing Silverfish - there are sections of society that did (and some still do) consider it 'not the done thing' for married women to be in paid employment (charity work would have been fine). Thankfully, that is, to a large extent, becoming a thing of the past; the flip side of it is that more women now initiate divorce than men do as women are now able to support themselves and their children.

I see many women who live a life of being controlled, they tell me their husbands 'make' them do things such as who to vote for. One girl I know lets her husband watch sport downstairs on the big tv with his mates and takes her knitting upstairs until they go. I would be telling him to go to the pub to watch sport. I hear women say regularly that they dare not tell husband certain things and I wonder what kind of relationship they have. If these women were working full time and had financial security they would be more confident to stand up for themselves, or would they say as one woman said to me 'a bad man is better than no man at all'

Mind you there is an old, old adage:-

If you have got a good "un, blind him in one eye.

If you have a bad "un blind him in both eyes.

haven't heard that one, sounds good to me, especially with my figure.

I've also heard some dreadful things from women I've known over the years that made my heart weep for them.

Naughty Nonu

Twinkle in the eye emoticon !

No-one has attacked Silverfish when she talks of her own experience and the experience of some other women. Most of us have known women in oppressive relationships and wondered why they stayed and where possible tried to help them.

Those of us who protested did so because our own relationships didn't work like that and we objected to the all encompassing 'we all'. Why vehemently? In defence of the men we love dearly, who we did not want to see accused of this type of behaviour.

In response to Silverfishes quote from a friend that 'a bad man is better than no man at all', my mother always said that 'a happy a marriage is the best way of living but better happily single than unhappily married'.

I confess I have little experience of marriages where the woman doesn't work. Both my mother and MiL worked and DMiL was the main wage earner because for most of his working life DFiL's work was seasonal. In the off season he took what ever work he could get. My father had a professional job and my mother worked because she enjoyed it and I doubt if it would have occurred to him that he had any right to object. If she was happy that was sufficient for him.

That's what I mean Holly, if anyone does not work how can they be exposed to the realities of life, they only see what on the media.

I'm sorry I can't agree, that may apply to some women but not to all. When I wasn't working when my children were young I was involved in all sorts of things which were unpaid and I listened to radio 4 when I was at home. I met a lot of different types of people but when I went to work I mixed with just a small group of the same people all the time and my life was a lot narrower. I am not keen on these sweeping statements.

My mil didn't approve of me working, especially after I had children. She thought a woman's place was in the home and that I should have her sons meal cooked ready when he came home and do all the cleaning and be a good little wife! Moi?
Fortunately her son didn't agree!

I like both of your posts FLICK &* NONNIE*.

You both have your ducks in a row !

Galen I had a friend like that. She used to, metaphorically, sit like a vulture waiting for my marriage to collapse because DH had to use some of his leave to look after the children in the holidays. When she thought of returning to work her DH looked at her in horror and said 'Who will look after me when I am ill?' so she didn't go back to work!

I know what you mean silverfish I know a couple of women who have put up with bad marriages and controlling husbands simply because the alternative would be to go out, get a job and fend for themselves.

gillybob

I know what you mean silverfish I know a couple of women who have put up with bad marriages and controlling husbands simply because the alternative would be to go out, get a job and fend for themselves.

I've known a few women who have had such controlling husbands (the control was done in a very subtle way) that their own self-confidence was so low, such little belief left in themselves, that the thought of coping alone terrified them - they didn't believe that they could do it. Sadly, none of them ever did (up until the time I left the area) bite the bullet and try.

I can't even begin to imagine how it must feel to live like that - there but for the grace of God and all that ...

I've known women who have used their husbands as an excuse not to do things - he won't let me etc. Easier than saying 'no'

Yeh, I know a couple of those too Nonu and in one case, at least, the husband is a poor little hen-pecked fellow!

AKA,

You are getting your NONNIES MIXED UP WITH YOUR NONUS.

I don"t mind, because as it so happens I agree with NONNIE.

Chuckle!