Water cannon for London

rosesarered

Phew! crikey.
All I shall say in response is this; The last Labour government left this country in the most HUGE mess. The Conservatives/Lib Dems have slowly but surely reversed the fortunes of the country 'at large', [that statement cannot be denied.] Labour said over and over again, that George Osborne's strategies would not work, and we would plunge ever deeper into economic mess. His strategies DID work.How could that have been achieved by spending rather than cutting costs?It had to be done.
Now durhamjen nothing has to be personal, you are a Labour supporter from way back, we know that, but can you not see what the last Labour government did that was wrong?I am amazed that anyone wants them back in power, they are the reason for all these unpopular cuts.
There is a lot of anti-police feeling, it seems to me, but you can still support Labour and not be anti-police surely?
Don't trust newspaper reports/surveys etc about dangerous jobs. Several of my relatives are/were policemen, and ALL were attacked, stabbed, biffed spat at at times amongst other injuries.My teacher husband never had any trouble at all. Policemen mostly don't report their injuries unless they are on the serious side.The stab vests that they now wear has certainly prevented a lot of injuries, particularly bruising to ribs.There are bad apples in every job.We can't live in a world that is lovely and wonderful all the time[even in Britain] but economically, if the country can get back on it's feet, then all the services will improve and there will be money again for all the things we would like to see get done.

rosesarered You wonder whether "we" would be doing so well as a country economically without the current policies.

I would suggest that very many people in this country are not doing well economically and in fact those who have benefited primarily are the super rich, while those that have suffered the most are the poor.

In the seventh richest country in the world, I think it is a disgrace that this government has been responsible for:

stagnation or reduction in wages for low and middle earners

huge numbers of people employed on zero hours contracts, not knowing from one day to the next whether they would have enough money to pay their bills;

an expensive re-organisation of the NHS;

people stuck outside hospitals in ambulances unable to be admitted because of bed shortages;

people being forced out of their homes because they have one spare bedroom;

astronomic house price rises and soaring rents;

cuts to legal aid, and a Court system on the brink of meltdown;

schools being opened in areas where they were not needed;

the Royal Mail being sold off for a pittance, with a consequent threat to future universal service;

tuition fees being tripled

people suffering from terminal illnesses being deemed fit for work;

people having to choose between feeding their families or heating their homes

an explosion of betting shops and loan companies on the high street;

people going to foodbanks in order to feed their families;

cuts to bus services across the country and the closure of many routes;

a massive reduction in social care support

etc., etc., etc.

We'll just have to agree to differ, as usual, Ana. Sorry, childish again.... I think her criticism of the Labour government was wrong. You think my criticism of the present government is wrong. What's new?
Being childish, did you read the link?

Outside of the time period, I know, but I am pleased they were not allowed to use water cannon during the miners strike. The dogs and horses were bad enough.

Sorry, Penstemmon, I was assuming you were commenting on my post re the 20 police officers killed in the line of duty in 2012/2013 when you thought that at least as many protestors had been killed in protest situations? Perhaps not.

I was not aware that we were looking at a set time period.

Kevin Gately & Blair Peach are two 'civilians' I am aware off as well as Ian Tomlinson.

Keith Blakelock is the police officer I know about. There may well be others on both sides of the lines.

Thinking about it, whilst four deaths are still too many it is not a huge number so does it warrant high expenditure on water canons??

durhamjen, roses' post of 09.34 was hardly stidently anti-labour, she was just wondering how this country would be faring now if they'd stayed in power.

I'm sure all those who are interested know about the anti-austerity march by now. Saying 'I don't expect you...' and/or 'as usual...' is just childish.

And actually, Ian Tomlinson was not in the period in question either.

Well, I've just tried to research for you, Penstemmon. I would expect names to come up in a google search. The only one that does is Ian Tomlinson. Perhaps someone else can enlighten us?

And, Ana, the link I gave is about the anti austerity march which I mentioned previously and roses criticised. However, I do not expect you to have read that, as usual, before you call my arguments incoherent.....

Read roses post of 09;34, Ana, and read her strident anti-labour government views. Okay for her is it, but not for me. There's a surprise.

I think at least as many 'protesters' have probably been killed as police officers in protest situations (sorry I have not researched) and any life needlessly lost is a tragedy.
The recent death of Ian Tomlinson shows that police too can lose control and someone out of control i/c a water cannon can be v. dangerous.

However I do agree it is hard job to keep life and property safe if protests either get hijacked by idiots looking to use an occasion purely to cause trouble/loot.

I have been on very many protests over the years and seen different responses from different police officers. Some responses keep the crowd safe and others aggravate and cause trouble. Mostly it has always been very safe but I have been in scary situations where police stop listening to reason.
I am not sure if the presence of a water canon is not going to 'raise the game' of those elements who just want trouble and create as many problems as it may solve!

Why is it okay to have austerity for the poor, and let the rich get richer?

Where did roses say that, durhamjen? Your strident anti-government arguments are becoming rather incoherent...

What a very odd article, Eloethan. We're expected to believe that jobs with no fatalities whatsoever in 2012/2013 are much more dangerous than being a police officer (or, as you say, a social worker or a nurse).

How quickly we forget - 20 police officers died in the line of duty during that period - 3 of them were shot at close range. And David Rathbone committed suicide in 2012, a couple of years after being blinded by Raoul Moat.

www.thepeoplesassembly.org.uk/the_rich_get_all_the_gravy

Do you live in the same country as me, roses? Why is it okay to have austerity for the poor, and let the rich get richer?

Wouldn't mind using water cannon on all those rich toffs in the government.

Actually, whilst being a police officer no doubt carries more risks than many jobs it is not even in the top 10 of the most dangerous jobs in the UK. Teachers and shopkeepers run more risk than police officers of being injured, and I don't know what the statistics are for social workers and nurses attacked at work but I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers are pretty high.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/10845754/Britains-most-dangerous-jobs.html

Police do get 'knocked' regularly by the public, and quite rightly when they do something wrong. However, I see the other side as my SIL is a police officer.The stab vest has saved his life many times when dealing with riots, drunken teenagers, thugs etc.However, he knows, and they all know, that if they are caught and outnumbered by rioters, they could well end up in a body bag.A lot of people are very casual about the police not using any weapons, but they are not the ones having to face danger.How these same people would react if they themselves were burned, hurt or looted is another matter.

- and say "how very dare you" when approaching rioters!

Police are already able to use tear gas and uniformed officers carry a canister as part of their equipment in case of necessity. Of course, they can't carry around a water canon. Water pistol, maybe.

I think it's a good idea. Not before time either - It's more humane than some solutions and an effective resource.

I don't have a political bias about the issue of water cannon. They can cause damage according to information on various radio programmes today. One man caught up in something lost an eye due to the force of the water. The Chief Constable of our area said he wouldn't want to use them

Another area the cuts are hitting is the police dogs and horses, which do invaluable work in so many areas of policing.

tasers have been inappropriately used

On another forum, a link was posted showing Australian police misusing tasers and I think those officers lost their jobs. It was quite distressing to watch that man being tasered so many times (there were several officers and one man involved).

I'd rather see rioters running away from water cannon than see police officers running away from rioters.

janthea - tasers have been inappropriately used - I'm sure water canons will be. And as for how they would have helped in the riots, there's general agreement that they wouldn't have been suitable ( see link). You need a certain type of crowd in a certain type of situation

rosesarered

with mob mentality anything can happen

That is so true. Many, many, many moons ago, I was dating a police officer (a motor bike cop). He and his partner heard a radio call for assistance at a football match where the fans were on the pitch rioting. As he and his partner were on motorbikes and not too far away, they responded knowing that they would get there quicker than the police cars. They parked their bikes and ran into the stadium; unfortunately, they ran in at the wrong end which meant they, just the two of them, were running into the approaching, rioting crowd. Needless to say, they turned and fled!

The police do need methods of control when the crowd has lost their own - and in sufficient numbers to deal with the crowd.