Self-deprecation

I always thought self-deprecation was the odd remark you made when someone over describes you: Ask X, they are the crossword expert' and you reply with a self-deprecatory remark about being good at saying cross words.

Having said that, I have long believed that self-esteem is a very dangerous concept, esteem is something earned from others who recognise what in you is admirable, self-esteem is narcissim, convincing yourself that you are wonderful regardless of the evidence and it can be very damaging when this belief is undermined by academic or work failure.

What we should be teaching our children and young people is self-respect and self confidence and the second comes from the first. They should know that regardless of their talents and abilities they have a right to be treated justly, fairly and equally and that their bodies are their own and no one but they should decide how they look and the limits to body access. If children know that they will have the confidence to accept that nobody is good at everything, that failure is part and parcel of life and we have to be able to accept we have limitations.

Which brings me back to the article. Bragging, boasting, singing your own praises, is unpleasant and puts people off but there is nothing to stop somebody talking about what they have done and how effective it was in the appropriate place to the appropriate person. When DH, an engineering project manager, was working he was constantly exasperated by young graduates claiming they had played a significant management role in every project they had ever worked on. As he said if they were to be believed the Channel Tunnel was built by 50,000 managers and the tea boy.

Exactly, Galen. I have read many letters of application for teaching jobs and it was ridiculously easy to see which candidates were exaggerating their own achievements. If they got to the interview stage, they were soon brought down to earth. Don't think we ever had one who was excessively humble, but we appreciated the honest ones.

I think self depreciation can be overdone as can the American model. The answer lies somewhere in the middle. One could almost call it honesty?

Some of today's children have been allowed to "big themselves up" far too much. To the extent even, that they now think they are the centre of the universe and everything should be done for them. Unfortunately their lazy parents agree with them, so long as the 'doing everything' is done by someone else and not them.

grannya I agree about balance, but I don't think the article was suggesting that children and young people should not be allowed to feel proud that they have been successful.
It was more a criticism of the advice that often seems to be given to them to 'big themselves up' and make more of their achievements than is perhaps really merited.

Yes, somewhere between the two extremes. But it is (or was) typically British English.

Interesting article that in the main I agree with, but what if you're the child of parents who believe this to such an extend that their children feel it's somehow 'wrong' to celebrate personal achievement? What if you grow up being taught that success is something to hide, in case as a consequence of your success someone else feels they've failed?
There is a balance to be struck, as in most things.

Yes, I like Mary Wakefield's views. Reminds me of a conversation I listened to amongst a group of professional women who were talking about people they liked working with. One said, 'for me, there is nothing as attractive as that person who has nothing to prove.'

That quote you give of Sheryl Sandberg's 'mantra' is good. I wish someone had said it to me when I was sixteen as well!

Finding pointers to such stuff is one of the main uses of Twitter for me, jane.

Thank you Bags a great article (where do you find them all?)
I posted a little while ago about how when I was looking for staff the overconfident CVs and candidates were a turn-off, compared to those who displayed a natural modesty.
I think self-efficacy (the belief that you can do something) is far more important than self-esteem.
I've just read Sheryl Sandberg's book Lean In. Whilst I have a view reservations about the book, her mantra "What would you do if you weren't afraid?" Stayed with me and I wish someone had said that to me when I was 16!