Free Speech

Pen it's not something that can be taught but if you read some of the posts above you will see many who manage it yet are frugal with the 'I' word. It's not using the 'I' word per se, but more the overuse of it for example in a short 4-5 line post you might find .....

'I think (x2)'
'I was'
'my'
'me (x2),
'I am (x2)
'I might'
'mine'

That might be considered overuse perhaps! #justthinking

Also please note how the above opinion (that's all it is) has been put forward without the use of the 'I' word (except of course in the exemplars)

You must know it's always been that way, though, DebnCreme. Sometimes opinions clash and it seems that one's reasonable post has been completely misinterpreted due to the mindset of another.

Sadly we don't have freedom of speech on here. Discussions I can cope with but having a relatively friendly, hopefully supportive, comment torn to shreds seems somewhat unreasonable. I feel decidedly fed up with GN right now.

thatbags I do try not to rise to the deliberateness of some situations because as you say why give the person satisfaction! However on some occasions I just can't resist a riposte!

I so value 'free speech' but do think we (society!) also have to promote the responsibility that goes with it more! There are some who use 'free speech' irresponsibly and put it in jeopardy. In the same way that the media have pushed limits causing a reaction that leads to 'gagging'.
I was also in two minds about the lobbying situation but do feel that the ability for groups to put their voice forward has now been, sadly, curtailed.

pen, going back to your question about whether setting out to offend is different from offence being taken, I would say yes, it is different, but that free speech means we need to be able to deal with both. So long as violence or libel is not advocated I think the differemce, though subtle and important on one level, is still within the bounds of what it means to have free speech available to everyone.

I wonder about this every time someone says something deliberately patronising. On the one hand, one can justifiably be offended; on the other hand, it's the person being deliberately patronising who has the problem so why vindicate their patronage by minding it instead of just shrugging it off, thus showing they are wasting their time?

I was musing on anno's post of 16.27 penstemmon, that's all.

agree Ariadne

Aka when people are presenting their views and experiences it would be odd not to use I or me! How would you go about describing your personal experience without using I or me?

Ana I don't think it is a case of insisting on being called anything. We are all free to define ourselves as we wish. I define myself as British, Anglo Arab, humanist, mother, grandmother, wife, educationalist, consultant, music lover, gardener, curly haired, overweight etc etc.

If the wider community that I lived in had generally always looked on me as a less valued person because of my genetic/racial make up then I might want to either hide that aspect of me (difficult if it is my skin colour) or be 'out and proud' and 'promote' that aspect of me that society, generally, valued less. Hence black power/gay pride etc etc etc.

I do agree with you, eleothan that the use of the phrase "PC brigade" has become a sneer aimed at those who hold different opinions from the ones being expressed. It is such a cliche now!

And when people object to others talking about the fact that they are gay, and celebrate it, we should remember that they have not been able to do so for hundreds of years, whereas "straight" people have always been able to assume that everyone was just like them. If you want to stand up and shout "Hooray for being straight" why not do so?

Men had their say for hundreds of years too, then many got upset when women began to voice their opinions, and these opinions were published.

Minorities have a right to celebrate when they have been gagged for years. And often, members of the majority can feel threatened, though I do not know why.

I thought it was the people of mixed race themselves who insisted on being called black.

I agree jane. The shock of the Soham murders spread through neighbouring communities as well as the town itself. It's to the school's credit that they dealt with the fall out with compassion and good sense. Like Dunblane and Hungerford, the town has moved on but will always remember the horror that drew them together.

What a truly solicitious post Newist !

I would expect, that on GN there is a huge diversity of people, from all different religions, C+ E, Catholic, Muslim, Sikh perhaps Buddhist and many more. Also I would expect there will be a great mix a nationalities, as well as heterosexual I am sure there are Gay posters as well. I do not think it is possible for such a lovely mix of people to agree with others on every subject, how you are brought up and where you live does influence your opinions and thoughts. I do sometimes feel that some people are cautious of posting in case they may have something different to say, which is a shame

President Obama considers himself black because that's how the white population of the USA defines him and historically always has defined non-white people. I think I have heard that he also has some Native American genes. When there is a powerful majority they are the ones who define others. In a perfect world, nobody would be defined by their colour, religion or gender orientation.

Jinglebells said 'just say it' so I will.

I feel David Cameron spent too much time on the subject of gay marriage when our country needed him to be sorting out our finances.

I'm always wary of people who use 'I' all the time. It's a sign that they can only see an issue from one viewpoint - their own.

Always very interesting to count the number of 'Is and MEs, etc in any post!

Nonnie I agree with you! It's still a mystery to me why President Obama considers himself black - when he's half white.

Completely agree jane. Any decent human being feels sorrow and empathy with such dreadful stories. A better example might have been questioning the nation's grief on the death of the Princess of Wales. At the time I thought it was spontaneous, still do and at that time the media were surprised by the reaction of the general public.

Actually Penguin I do think that communities are affected and indiviuals have genuine feelings when something dreadful happens, even if they don't know anyone directly involved or affected.
I remember the Stockport air crash in 1967, sitting revising for A levels and hearing it on the radio.
The Moors Murders were not far away either.
People were deeply affected by these things, but perhaps the reporters just didn't report people's feelings so much then.

Sorry, straying from OP but wasn't it as much to do with the way it was first reported? Someone had taken a pic of a nursing Mum who was completely unaware of this. It was then posted online and she was called a "Tramp."

Yes I agree thatbags I didn't explain myself well. We are all encouraged, I think by the current news reporting style, to feel collectively. A murder in a town and we are told the community are grieving or coming to terms with this. What is shocking and dreadful for a family is shared with complete strangers who are asked how they feel.

I was brought up with 'sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me'.
Seems terribly old-fashioned now, when people are awarded compensatiuon for 'hurt feelings'.
I think being hurt is different from being offended.
I am rarely offended, because I think others are entitled to their own views, just as I am entitled to mine.
I might feel a bit hurt though if it seemed to me that someone had made an unjustifed personal comment.

Going back to the OP ..is it now PC to defend breastfeeding in public?

Roses I agree re being hurt . Only people I care about can really hurt me. 'Names' on a forum might annoy me by their attitudes/opinions but they have a right (balanced with responsibility) to express them just as I have the right of reply which may annoy them just as much too!

thatbags do you think if someone sets out to offend it is different from someone taking offence at general expressions of opinion? I am not sure what I think about that. Perhaps I would be offended if someone set out to offend me on purpose, although that would play into the hands of the 'offender'...

Perhaps it's time that we stopped being 'offended' so easily? I think you can only feel hurt by remarks that come from an actual friend or relative anyway [who may really upset you].We are all [as a Nation I mean] getting too thin skinned and perceiving slights and being offended right , left and centre.Some people seem to revel in it.We are all old enough [on here anyway] to have grown up a bit.This country does have free speech and it's not something that some countries have, sadly.