Jotter for knowledge of 12yos...

I thought you'd been through all that before, Bags. Is this one very different from her sisters?

I don't remember there being such a disconnect with reality so often the last two times.

It's a tricky age, some girls find it very hard; too old to be a child, too young to be a woman or even a teenager. They test out their independence and, especially very bright girls, love to challenge and argue. And they do it with their patents because they know, that whatever happens, however difficult their behaviour is, Mummy and Daddy will always love then unconditionally. And it's fun to do wind ups.

Are there any particular triggers?

Oh!thats quite normal!
Just ignore them, or try to pretend they don't exist
It doesn't work!
But it helps!

Parents, that should be.

The trick is to turn into a swan B. Calm exterior, paddling like mad underneath. You will leave a wake, which the cygnet will follow - sort of.

..... and breath.

I've broken into the emergency bottle of wine, I've beaten the computer at Scrabble, thought "swan!" and "serenity."

Thank you all! Isn't it amazing how just telling someone(s) else that you feel... whatever!... helps? Just the words you have used – challenge, argue, ignore, calm – help enormously.

I might have to be a puma sometimes though, or even a large dinosaur.

If I could go back in time to when DD was that age I think I would try to react far less to her moods. She was up then down, completely confused at times by her emotions. On top of this she seemed to argue for the sake of it and question absolutely everything.

There were some challenging days to say the very least

I do believe that no matter how difficult this time is for the parents, the children are having a harder time finding their way through adolescence.

Lots of & helps.

My DGD was dreadful at that sort of age and we despaired but now she is the most loving and caring twenty year old - or most of the time anyway!

Brings it all back, Bags - twin 12 year old daughters who insisted on slamming every door in the house in protest. Not a single door frame was properly attached to the wall. The house reverberated to 'I HATE livng here!' Being wound up by two older bothers didn't help. There was an invitation to battle every hour, on the hour. But they weren't as challenging as me at that age!

We also have been through all this but admit we blamed it partly on our DGD having gone through a traumatic breakdown of her parents marriage when she was very young and subsequent new relationship and new half siblings.It has been really trying for us all (understatement) but at nearly 15 she is getting slightly easier and perhaps some of it was down to "age" and not all to her early life. Will we ever know?

My DGD at that age was a nightmare. For one thing, she refused to wear anything but a fleece sweater even in the warmest weather and the need for a deodorant completely passed her by. Sullen doesn't begin to describe her. Mind you, she was always Ok with me and perhaps I was a refuge for her from the skirmishes with her mother. Now she is 21, (reasonably) mature, affectionate and very sociable. They do grow out of it, Bags.