£600k for 10 years - is that reasonable planning for a home?

As an aside, instead of £23,250 it's apparently £50k max savings allowed in Wales before someone stops self funding - and different again in Scotland - seems odd to have a difference like that within the UK.

The food was really good and varied, with lots of choices for every meal where I worked.
They could (and did) change their choices at any time, it was well planned, they could sit where they wanted to, and there was appropriate, restful music playing in the background whilst they ate.

Not everywhere is the same.

They also had beautiful rooms, which were large, because it was a Victorian house, with stained glass windows, and sea views.

The extortionate charges quoted by care homes are just to cover the (shoebox-size) room and meals (stodge and slop.) Anything classed as extras such as chiropodist, hairdresser, special diet requirements, accompanied trips to hospital appts,etc, add heavily to the monthly invoice.
Private care homes "eat" through any financial assets at a frightening speed.

My understanding is that the poster’s father lives alone in his house, doesn’t want to go into a home and is running out of money to pay his carers.

icanhandthemback

Germanshepherdsmum

A charge can be placed on the house so that fees can be paid when the house is sold after he dies.

It can but then you have the cost of running the house on top and the bother of insuring an empty house if you don't have a spouse to live in it.

A charge - a deferred payment agreement - is usually only placed on a property if a spouse or other immediate relative is living in it after the person has gone into a care home - the property in which you live is not counted for care in your own home. If the house is vacant after the person goes into care there’s no point in getting a deferred payment agreement because the local authority will treat this as a loan and charge compound interest on it, and will also insist on sale within a certain time period once the person in care has passed away. It’s also not widely known, but if an immediate relative over the age of 60 or with a disability is living in the home and it is their only residence, the property value has to be disregarded for care fees.

Shirls52000

My dad is 92, lives in a council house he bought and has very little savings wise but because the sum total of his assets is over 25k he is charged for his care. He refuses to go into a nursing home so we have carers go in 4 times a day, they spend around 15 mins with him each time, so far he’s paid £40k and the funds are rapidly running out, soon his house will have to be sold to pay for his care and it’s only worth around 80 K, elderly care in this country is abysmal

Once his physical savings (money in the bank, not his home) drop below £23,250 the local authority should step in and pay some of his care costs. Once they drop below £14,250 they should then reassess his contribution discounting the remaining savings and counting just his income - pensions benefit, etc. They have to leave him with a certain amount to live on after care has been paid for and for care provided in his own home, the local authority are not allowed to include the value of the home in which he lives in the financial assessment.

As an example, my elderly mum had to have two carers four times a day temporarily on discharge from hospital. Her total weekly income - pension plus pension credit, attendance allowance and a small annuity - was assessed at around £360 per week. She has no savings. Her contribution to care was assessed at £130 per week because her legal minimum income is £230 per week. And the cost is the same regardless of the amount of carers or number of daily visits - it’s assessed on the number of hours care allocated per week.

Are there still care homes that take no Local Authority funded cases Monica? I know there were at one time, but by the time I retired, so many care homes had closed down that the local authorities were having to pay above the usual care cap rate to fund patients in the previously exclusively private homes too, particularly those with complex mental health issues or dementia, because there were just no other care home beds available. .

I have told my children to never put me in a home that takes LA and self funding residents.

I have always payed my taxes and that is sufficient I fail to see why I should effectively pay an extra tax because I am self funding and there are LA residents whose funding I will also be contributing to.

Indeed, but it enables your father to continue to live in the house if that’s what he wants, however he will of course have to consider whether he can afford the bills. I don’t understand your reference to an empty house, surely he’s living there?

Germanshepherdsmum

A charge can be placed on the house so that fees can be paid when the house is sold after he dies.

An old chap who was visiting his wife with dementia every time I visited my mother’s care home, had this arrangement with the local authority who were paying his wife’s fees. They owned their small house (in a relatively expensive area) outright, but had no children to leave anything to, so he told me he was entirely happy with it.

Germanshepherdsmum

A charge can be placed on the house so that fees can be paid when the house is sold after he dies.

It can but then you have the cost of running the house on top and the bother of insuring an empty house if you don't have a spouse to live in it.

A charge can be placed on the house so that fees can be paid when the house is sold after he dies.

My dad is 92, lives in a council house he bought and has very little savings wise but because the sum total of his assets is over 25k he is charged for his care. He refuses to go into a nursing home so we have carers go in 4 times a day, they spend around 15 mins with him each time, so far he’s paid £40k and the funds are rapidly running out, soon his house will have to be sold to pay for his care and it’s only worth around 80 K, elderly care in this country is abysmal

Interestingly the threshold is £50k in Wales rather than £23k in England - different in Scotland too . . I mean care is funded if savings reach £50k in Wales. Was reading something about it earlier today.

….oh, they do allow the care recipient around £28 per week pocket money to pay for stuff like his podiatry/hairdressing/ manicure/ incontinence pull-ups…and any accompanying care worker at hospital apps.
It nowhere near covers my husbands excess costs.

Anything over £23,250 in joint or the care recipients own name you will pay all the care bill. When your savings recede to that amount , they will take the card recipients’ state pension , and half of any private or company pensions!
They cannot take any monies that belong entirely in your name. But please don’t think of moving assets to your single account ……they will want to look at your past six months bank statements …they will ask for any transfers to be explained!
Can’t quite remember the phrase they used but something like ‘disposal of assets’.

My mums care home is £1200 per week.its all funded but we have to pay for hairdressing, incontinence pads whilst she’s been assesed, and £23 per hour for a carer to accompany her to her hospital appointments.
She has a small room with a bathroom next door. It would have been £200 per month for an ensuite room. She gets £28 pocket money per week.

Witzend

I would just add, re the Abbeyfield dementia home I mentioned, I would guess that around half the residents were self funded. But they all had exactly the same type of ensuite room, and all received the same level of care.

During my mother’s 8 years there, I saw very little turnaround of staff, surely always a good sign.

A friend whose husband needed care tried several homes for him. She said the Abbeyfield one was the best and the whole atmosphere was different. It was the only place she was happy with and certain that he was being properly cared for.
It's a charity isn't it?

Plus, of course, the rising costs of care.
The age of the person now
Inflation
Etc.

It really is impossible to say.

The annual return on £600,000 would be variable according to interest rates at the time, plus the person's income would be taken into account.

So really, it is a case of 'how long is a piece of string'?

My DSis with advanced dementia (unable to care for herself safely), has just moved into a care home, over £1600 a week.....

I would just add, re the Abbeyfield dementia home I mentioned, I would guess that around half the residents were self funded. But they all had exactly the same type of ensuite room, and all received the same level of care.

During my mother’s 8 years there, I saw very little turnaround of staff, surely always a good sign.

My mother was in an Abbeyfield care home, purpose built for dementia, for 8 years.
It was very good and by no means the most expensive - and we looked at a lot, for both her and FiL.

I swear that in some of them all you could hear was the cash registers ringing, metaphorically speaking. We looked at one such - very smart decor downstairs (to impress the relatives who were choosing) and they were perfectly willing to take my mother, but the room they were offering was down a maze of narrow corridors (it was a converted hotel) - a small poky room with the original avocado washbasin, and no ensuite.

It would have been totally unsuitable for her.
The home was owned, we were told, by a consortium of doctors.

Mauriherb

My Aunt is currently in a care home and we are paying £1600 a week (£83200 a year) . She doesn't need one to one care and is fed well . My real gripe is that we have to supply all toiletries and incontinence pads . Its scary to think about

Yes, along with chiropody (she's diabetic so only a qualified person can cut her toenails), paying for Opticians to visit as she is immobile and various other incidentals. It is a constant worry.

My Aunt is currently in a care home and we are paying £1600 a week (£83200 a year) . She doesn't need one to one care and is fed well . My real gripe is that we have to supply all toiletries and incontinence pads . Its scary to think about