Worried by reports sil sometimes losing his rag with the gc.

I don't like what I've read.
It's ringing all sorts of alarm bells.
That sort of aggression from your son in law can get worse .
He's a grown man and your grandchildren just innocent babies .
As it is -you never forget harsh words from your parents .
My friends and I have shared details of our unhappy childhoods. It affects you for life .
One friend can't stop talking about it .
Another is unbearable bossy and self righteous .
And another obsessed with having as many friends as possible and so greedy with money that it verges on dishonesty .
As for me -it has turned me into a people pleaser and a person who is easily bullied .
It's taken me a lot of work to stop being put upon ,stop being dominated and to stand up for myself .
So having written that -I would step in .
Your daughter and son in law need to have counselling now and to address the problem of their marriage so that a happy balanced atmosphere is created for their children .
Believe me ,they are causing damage and it could be addressed .
I hate to think of two more unhappy little souls struggling with life .

The gym and running marathons are the problem, daughter is a wife and a mother being obsessed about getting away from the family is not good.

There is nothing you should do except watch and wait, maybe a crisis will happen maybe not, but if any abuse is proved husband will likely leave, what then!.

The couple will decide what works for them. They sound under strain and both need own space. No two marriages work the same. It is obviously the daughter 1 passing this information on. Why? I wouldn't stand by and see my own children abused neither would she.

I would advise against 'stepping in' as OP said she hasn't witnessed any abuse herself, so if anyone steps in it should be someone who witnessed it.

I stepped in years ago thinking I was doing the right thing but Social services believed all the lies one parent told them and made the other parent out to be the villain. My experience as a concerned Gran counted for nothing. I have zero trust in any of the stautary services to be protecting my GC from emotional abuse because they just take the easy option...

Pushing a 5 year old to the ground and saying he hates them is worrying instead of thinking about your sil needing help which he obviously does your gc need to be put first so someone needs to step in

It shouldn’t matter who is in the home when or how stressed parents are ( I know it will impact) the children should be safe and feel loved and protected.
As a PP has said safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility.
Emotional abuse will have long term consequences for mental health (being shouted at and that they are hated and parent wishes they weren’t there)
Physical abuse could easily escalate. An adult pushing a 5 year old over is never OK.
If the 5 year old mentions any of this in school they may rightly involve Social Services.
Staff are trained to spot subtle and more obvious signs of abuse including changes in behaviour, withdrawal, aggression towards others or flinching if an adult is near.
Please don’t wait until you see something
“ really bad”

Both DD’s usually come to me when they are worried about something but their deep personal relationships may not be included in something. Dd2 was worried about what she says she witnessed and feels she has to take action from her own conscience. ATM I am making subtle suggestions to DD1 that she doesn’t spend so much time at the gym and doing marathons, and as she has now got an injury that’s quite easy to do. I have always made it my mission not to interfere with either DDs. Obvs if I saw something really bad I would say something.

Dee1012

Perhaps it's just me 25Avalon but is your other daughter really the right person to deal with this situation? Given her professional role, she will have the knowledge but is it possible her emotions will 'colour things'.

In your original post you say been harsh to both gc, manhandling gd and pushing gs aged 5 to the ground, plus yelling at the gc that he hates them and wishes they weren’t there. Also that it's a regular occurance.
That IS a safeguarding issue, your Sil is a grown man assaulting a child!

I'm sorry if I sound harsh and perhaps he is a decent person who is struggling but I'd still be of the view that somebody needs to take action in some way.

I agree with this- other DD is not bound by her profession. We are all responsible for safeguarding others, regardless of attachment or circumstances.

However, I do not advocate counselling or too much interefering in this matter outside of your normal family relationships.

It reads to me as if OP does not have a very close relationship with one daughter, if she has to rely on the other for her information.

She also says the GC seem happy.

In this case I would try to connect more directly with the daughter in question- and especially the children.

Just be a listening ear for any concerns they may have and try to keep your distance from the other daughter's remarks.

Unless you hve your own evidence that SIL is abusing the children then it won't be considered as anything but hearsay.

Are the GC at school? Are they doing well there? Do you have any contact with school?

These are the things I would focus on.

Perhaps it's just me 25Avalon but is your other daughter really the right person to deal with this situation? Given her professional role, she will have the knowledge but is it possible her emotions will 'colour things'.

In your original post you say been harsh to both gc, manhandling gd and pushing gs aged 5 to the ground, plus yelling at the gc that he hates them and wishes they weren’t there. Also that it's a regular occurance.
That IS a safeguarding issue, your Sil is a grown man assaulting a child!

I'm sorry if I sound harsh and perhaps he is a decent person who is struggling but I'd still be of the view that somebody needs to take action in some way.

A family counsellor is a good idea, who for?

I asked for viewpoints Newatthis not advice as I know how it can end in a pile on. As said dd2 is on the case at the moment as someone fully aware of safeguarding and I am waiting to see how she gets on as the most suitable person in the family. I have not personally seen any abuse but I will certainly be looking out for it and if it happens on my watch I will speak out. TBH I think seeing a family counsellor could be the next best step depending how dd2 gets on.

You ask for advice but say you may not necessarily act in upon it. You also say GC can be challenging. I have worked with wives, husbands and children in abusive relationships and ALL of them say they wish someone would have helped. These children will grow up with a lot of psychological problems if it is not stopped. Or worse still, if it escalates, they may not get to grow up at all!

Correct Alexander.

If multiple people have seen this, it’s not just hearsay. Children’s safety comes first, even if it’s uncomfortable.

It sounds like your son-in-law could do with some support.
Are you able to take the children off his hands at all to give him a breathing space and some time to do his own thing?
Not wishing to be rude but your daughter does sound a bit self-centred... 😕

The bottom line is that there are two young children here being verbally and physically abused by their parents.
You're right to be worried ☹️

Thank you FGT. I will leave it with other dd and see how she gets on. Skydancer you are right. Sil is not a bad man at all - he is the kind who will do anyone a favour. Many a time he has given me a hug when I’ve been troubled. I just don’t want to see it come to a bad ending.

It sounds as if he is tired and stressed, not a bad man but one at the end of his tether.

I hope you’re okay this evening 25Avalon and not over worrying. Anxiety is very draining. Remember you’re not alone with this - your other daughter is on board too. That might reassure you somewhat, you have an ally. I hope most of your fears are unfounded and that the situation resolves soon to everyone’s satisfaction.

Dd2 is trained in safeguarding, been a Senco for years, not sure she wants to raise it with sil but feels she has to. It would be more an are you ok chat, not something to put him on the defensive.

The reason I may have seemed a bit harsh on dd1 is because I didn’t want it to seem I am blaming SIl which I’m not. I can see both sides. Thing is they’ve always seemed a happy family to me although do can be badly behaved - possibly gs has adhd. Dad disciplines and mum doesn’t always back him up. I have also seen dd1 loose her cool when dc fight each other which is quite common.

Both dd1 and sil put on a united front when we’re there so dh thinks everything is ok. I don’t want to stir it up. DD1 is so busy with work etc and ferrying children to various activities I practically have to make an appointment to see her. They are both so busy. I guess I could say ask her if everything is ok. Although I tread on eggshells with her I notice when she is really troubled about anything she will ring me. Maybe I should just leave it at that but it is gc I am concerned for.

I'm sure my DH would be the same, but I disagree with him & think it isn't good for the grandchildren to be dealing with this on a regular basis.
Is DD2 prone to sharing things about DD1 or has she told you this in the hope you'll speak to DD1 and try to resolve it? You know your daughters best & you'll know which is more likely.

Yes, I agree relationship counselling would help.

and FGT's idea of a relaxed setting to raise it.

I'm concerned about SiL's remarks, it show he is under great strain. It might be him who would benefit to counselling to stand up to your DD to resolve it.

Can you support him at all whilst this gets sorted out?

I don't agree with your DH that it should just be left. But you might have to live with it for now. do what you think is right.

It seems to me as if both parties in this marriage are under strain. Yous Sil is being seen as the problem because he is so strung up, with most ofthe child care left to him, plus his wife going off to the gym in the morning and bed at night means that they spend little time together and with no 'release time' - like the gym, or retreating to bed alone available to him

In this situation I would be concerned as to why my daughter was spending so much her time in the gym and having early nights. It sounds as if she does not want to spend time with her husband and he is left with the children.

I think the problem lies with the relationship between the married couple. If that was resolved your SiL would not be shouting at the children - and what you can do about that I am not sure. Talk gently to your daughter as to why the gym is so essential? suggest counselling. I really do not know, but I do feel that it is the relationship between the spouses that is the core ofthe problem and if that was resolved the shouting would stop.

6 of one and half a dozen of the other I think.
I'm inclined to think that your daughter is leaving her husband to do everything and he's losing his rag.
She's up early going to the gym, running marathons and working a full time job. Going to bed early. It's not much of a life for him is it. I wouldn't think he hardly sees her. She needs to focus on her children and husband.
I would have a word with your daughter and tell her what you've heard and does she know the abuse he is giving to the children.
Threaten that you will contact social services if this continues.
It's child abuse and this cannot go on.
Both parties need to sort this out between them.
I have no other advise and yes you do need to be worried.

Things must be getting on top of him if your daughter says this happens regularly. I’d be concerned. Yelling ‘I wish you weren’t here’ to children sounds troubling. Are they a ‘handful’? Over boisterous? On the spectrum?

Sounds as though he’s doing the lion’s share of childminding while your daughter enjoys running off (literally and metaphorically).

If it were me?
I’d have a word with your daughter, their mum. Somewhere neutral. A cafe. Sit side by side (less confrontational than making eye contact) or in the car together and broach the subject. If I didn’t I’d just sit at home worrying about worst case scenario’s. Which won’t do your nerves any good.

I imagine you worry in case things escalate and if they do (with hindsight) you’ll berate yourself for not speaking up.

I feel for you. It’s complicated. 💐