Son

Families are hard work - I think you need to make your own decisions about what is acceptable to you. Your other children can`t really dictate to you.

You are being used and you know it so now is the time to stop being used. Your son is grown up he has family he needs to stop depending on handouts. It sounds hard but he needs to reach rock bottom in order to dig himself out of the situation he is in. You and the rest of your family are at odds because of his behaviour and you know in your heart it has to stop.

You might not see him if you refuse to help again but at least you will have your dignity. Your family have watched his behaviour and listened to you when you have discussed lending him money. They want to hear that you have finally had enough of being used by your selfish son. If you stick to your word and refuse to help him your family will support you.

Your absolutely right. He's not even called or replied or even said he'll pay the money back to his brother. We've cancelled his bank card today as well . X

At least you have taken action.
I feel sorry for your dilemma but I think you need to push him away now to find help elsewhere. He can't keep using and abusing his family's goodwill
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He's a grown up.

As things stand at the moment you are treating your second son as if he was your favourite child. Paying debts lending money etc etc. Do you do as much for your other chidlren? Give them as much money? I doubt it.

Ask yourself seriously whether under all the aggravation you have, this errant son, is actually really a favourite. Why else would you support him and give home time etc that you do not have for his siblings?

If not, start evening it up. Do not give him money until you have given your other cchildren as much as he has received.

I can understand why your other children feel so left out and abandoned by you that they have reached a stage where they issued this ultimatum

Families are definitely hard work - I know. And we , as mothers are always bearing the brunt of our children’s problems. Your second seems to be workshy - he cannot expect you or his siblings to bail him out. But that’s what we do. Only you can decide whether you want to help him out or not. I feel for you. My middle son and his wife almost “hate” my daughter , sometimes for good reason but my heart breaks when they send nasty messages to each other on our family WhatsApp group,
Btw fat-shaming his sister is cruel😡

chris8888

Families are hard work - I think you need to make your own decisions about what is acceptable to you. Your other children can`t really dictate to you.

This.

Redhead56

You are being used and you know it so now is the time to stop being used. Your son is grown up he has family he needs to stop depending on handouts. It sounds hard but he needs to reach rock bottom in order to dig himself out of the situation he is in. You and the rest of your family are at odds because of his behaviour and you know in your heart it has to stop.

You might not see him if you refuse to help again but at least you will have your dignity. Your family have watched his behaviour and listened to you when you have discussed lending him money. They want to hear that you have finally had enough of being used by your selfish son. If you stick to your word and refuse to help him your family will support you.

I agree.

I think he probably has some Personality Disorder or borderline MH stuff going on. He's actually abusive. You are maybe worried he will take his own life if not supported? Or be in serious trouble with the police?

" It sounds hard but he needs to reach rock bottom in order to dig himself out of the situation he is in" I agree particularly with this.

But he has to face navigating his life by himself. You have all my sympathies, it's very hard, but continuing to support him is de facto saying "OK" to the way he is.

Personally, I think he needs to go for help, but is unlikely to admit he needs it, he can't see there is anything wrong with the way he is.

and by the way, you are NOT to blame

I can only suggest that if he comes after you for money again that you just say when you repay £xyz back - it would be there for you to borrow again in the future!
But as you have not repaid it - I can't help you now!!

But you should not dictated to by any of your children. As mothers we (generally) love our children equally and you should not be drawn into their disputes even if you agree with one and despise the wrongdoer.
You have enough battles of your own without being drawn in to other peoples disputes.
As for contact with the GC - set up your own arrangements if you can, pick up them up, take them out or back to yours and then return them.
If your son uses his children as a weapon to get at you or his siblings then he really should seek help.

This is an awful dilemma for you, but you aren’t helping your son in the long run by bailing him out. He now has to face up to an adult life with adult responsibilities. He is the father of three children who are in need of a better example than he is providing.

He is upsetting you and his siblings, even stealing from his brother now.

Why should any of you assist him and his partner in living beyond their means? You’ll be doing him a favour to withdraw your help and allow him to face the consequences of his choices. It’s understandable that you’re concerned he’ll harm himself, but how far and for how long are you prepared to let a situation continue in which the rest of his family, including you, are suffering from his behaviour?

People will treat you the way you let them.

Stop enabling him, if you keep giving him money he will never learn how to budget.

I would tell him now that you will not be lending him any more money so that he has notice and can budget accordingly.

Someone like this man, will not learn to budget just because his parents stop supporting him. The first thing he will do is start on the emotional blackmail to persuade you to change your mind, telling you how your grand children will suffer, going shoeless to school, without any breakfast, or any other problem that he can think of that will affect how you feel and lead to you handing out the dosh again. If all else fails he will threaten you with not seeing them again. Then he will turn on you and scream and shout about the other children being favourites, of how awful his childhood was. He might threaten to acuse you of abusing him when he was a child.

Be prepared for all this and hold in there. His current behaviour is already beyond the pale and things will only get worse, if you do not put your foot down, say no and keep saying it.

These cases have a very easy solution in theory but hard in practice - you are enabling him to pacify your own mind and that is why your other AC are giving you the ultimatum (wisely)

The difficulty is whether OP can change and say no

M0nica

Someone like this man, will not learn to budget just because his parents stop supporting him. The first thing he will do is start on the emotional blackmail to persuade you to change your mind, telling you how your grand children will suffer, going shoeless to school, without any breakfast, or any other problem that he can think of that will affect how you feel and lead to you handing out the dosh again. If all else fails he will threaten you with not seeing them again. Then he will turn on you and scream and shout about the other children being favourites, of how awful his childhood was. He might threaten to acuse you of abusing him when he was a child.

Be prepared for all this and hold in there. His current behaviour is already beyond the pale and things will only get worse, if you do not put your foot down, say no and keep saying it.

This is possible Monica..

if its a Narcissistic Abuse pattern.... problem however is that he is unlikely to willingly go for help as his first port of call is to blame others not look inward and think, "what's my part in this been". Or be able to admit to himself there is anything wrong in it. There's always a reason, an excuse, a hard luck story, true or otherwise.

(There is some missing parts of the story here, ie how does he treat his wife/partner? Can she stand up to him, or has not needed to as you have provided. Has he managed to hide bits of himself to her, and keep the bitter bits away from her pointing to others, and so on)

You and your DH, if you just cant decide how to set the boundaries, feel you need some backing, it would do no harm talking it over with a psychologist to find out a bit more about how how you can best help him,

for that's what you are doing by starting to set clear boundaries, but enduring the flack is at times horrible.

He is constantly borrowing but rarely pays back that means he isn’t borrowing. You are enabling him to live the way he is to the detriment of all the rest of your family. It’s hard to accept that you’re just a means to an end but eventually you have to face it.

tinkestral, what is DH's POV on this?

He's very upset but basically says he needs tough love x

He and his partner can be awful to one another. She smokes weed and he drinks. Neither thinks they have a problem. I like my daughters in law but my husband thinks she is lazy. However I just think the pair of them are a nightmare. He needs help,I've tried to get it for him but unless he's agreeable then it's not going to happen.
A bit of update.. he feels his done nothing wrong it was a genuine mistake on his part but he won't be paying it back. Hes also said that he lent us £500 a few years ago but that's not strictly true. He got a bank loan and transferred £500. I didn't ask for it and tried to give it back. But I explained that in the last 12 years he's had a lot of us. £300 in November alone.
I've told him enough is enough and I won't be lending any more. I'm just worried he'll do something stupid x

tinkestral of course you are, its natural you should be. Your son has some similarities to my abusive Ex, and I had fears too. But - only IME - people like him have the sort of ego that will continue to blame others not self. Which is why they won't accept help as in counselling or similar.

Someone wisely said above that sometimes people have to be faced with the realities and may hit a low point -or the police - which is what happened to Ex, to a certain extent. But if DiL is into dope they will be part of an alternative network that "Get by" this way or that. Be strong but not unkind: wait for a time when he can be more honest; seek support from your other children.

Its hard when you get that familiar voice on the phone and it begs or similar, it brings the old caring feelings up, but there is only really one course ahead and its tough love.

What is the kindest and most loving way to respond. Is it by colluding with him so maintaining and in a way validating his actions, while hoping for changes in his behaviour. Or is it kinder and more loving to bring about change by transforming your behaviour towards him. Respect and boundaries are necessary in all relationships. Start with respecting yourself Tinkestrel, and you’ll know what to do.

My adult son stole money from me constantly

Tough love time. It will be tough on all of you but for all your sakes it has to be. I wouldn’t put up with any offspring stealing from me, ever. No excuses, ever. Maybe if you fear for his children you should speak to a psychologist or social worker about your concerns. I don’t know how the system works there so I can’t say if it would be the right thing. Your choice, but you can’t go on like this.

My heart breaks for you and it is such a difficult position to be in, but I do believe you have done the right thing by telling him that there is no more money coming his way. Yes, he will be angry and that is something, unfortunately, that you and your DH will have to deal with as time goes by, but it is definitely time for the "tough love" that your DH spoke of. If you break it down (and I truly hope that you don't take this the wrong way), your son is (a) a liar; (b) a thief; (c) has problems with alcohol; (d) lazy; (e) a bully (to his sister) and; possibly (f) a bully to you and your DH. Please stay strong as you have other children who will need you moving forward so please use their strength to get you through this most difficult time. You never know, this may be the wake up call that he needs

Tell your children that they have absolutely no right to give you an ultimatum of this kind.

Some of them are parents, I expect, and ought to know that we do not stop loving our children, even when they are behaving badly.

Point out to them, that you do not approve of their brother's behaviour and that it is entirely up to them whether they continue to see and speak to him or not, but it is neither fair nor kind of them to penalize you for making a different decision.

However, stop lending your son money, and if you have proof of his stealing from you, report it to the police.

You are doing this son no favours by shielding him from the consequences of his behaviour.

And unless you have given your other children comparable amounts of money to those you have given the brother they are complaining about, get hold of a solicitor, and re-write your will stating that the money this son has borrowed and not repaid has been given him in lieu of anything you may have to leave, and that the rest of your property and estate is to be divided equally between your other children.