Ungrateful ?

Sometimes I feel its my fault that they don't respect me because I was quite a hippy Mum with not many rules (hippy without the drugs of course) It was because I was brought up so regimental by a Mother that never showed effection and I wanted the opposite for my sons..

But I do think having more rules and being more authoritarian would have gotten me more respect perhaps

All sounds so strange Does your son work if he dropped them off at 9,45 and needs money off you perhaps he doesn’t ?
Is there a mother of the grandchildren and where is she in all this ? How come no one checked to see if you and the children were ok

I was called a martyr's last week by another family member and reading your last post that was by your other son
So both sons have been hard with you since your husband died Could they be grieving themselves and feel you aren’t trying to help yourself

He has made me feel like I need to start Therapy
I think you do definitely need some bereavement counselling you are going under with grief and are not looking after yourself mentally, unfortunately a lot of men don’t handle other peoples emotion as well as they should

welbeck demanding money from you the poster didn’t say that at all she said he ‘asked’ for £100 and she gave it to him thats quite different to your interpretation again shouting in front of children Theodora never used the word shouting she said she didn’t want to ‘argue’ in front of the children
It really doesn’t help to embroider the story .

My interpretation of this sorry story is that you are having massive grief and not managing the adjustment to being alone and need help Your sons are perhaps grieving too but like so many men they are shrugging it off and have no patience for your sadness
You sound a nice lady so stop blaming yourself for everything If you have friends talk to them but do seriously consider getting professional help

Morning Theodora. ?

Hope you are feeling a little better.

Hope my fingers will let me type ?.

Yes your sons are grieving too but even so it's no excuse for treating you with such casual dismissive cruelty. And please don't blame yourself for being a slightly "hippy" mum (I'm one too)?. Far better than a draconian Victorian style of parenting.

Like you I realised I wouldn't feel comfortable with professional counselling, but I did join a widows support group. Perhaps that might be better for you.

There are no right or wrong ways to grieve. No one size fits all. And there are no timescales. We just have to survive it and work through it, as best we can. Ideally families pull together and support each other but not always. Sometimes grief pulls people apart, not all families unite in grief.

Grief is by definition a lonely road, especially for the surviving spouse or partner. And trite as it sounds it takes time. Our lives will never be the same. No one can ever fill the hole in our lives, it's always there, but in time you learn to live with that hole.

It doesn't get better but it gets easier. Xx

How tough for you Theodora.
I am also widowed and did get in touch with Cruse, the counselling organisation early on although I didn't continue.
Neither son is being kind to you at the moment. Is there anyone else to confide in until you regain your strength?
I have tried to appear strong when with my DC because I know they feel helpless and sad too at losing their dad.
I've also joined some interest groups which keep me busy.
You'll always get plenty of good advice on here.
Take care.
.

Your son sounds like the one with the issues op. He sounds like he was deflecting his anger onto you. He has financial problems and possibly marriage problems at the moment. You are the safe ‘it’ to offload onto it seems. The ones who love him seem to be getting the worst of him at the moment. Sounds like he’s the one that needs a listening ear. Ask him ‘What’s happened to you?’ rather than ‘What’s wrong with you?’

I would think that the easiest answer would be to agree how long you are going to have them in advance. Eg What time are you going to pick them up? Saves a lot of misunderstanding. It would seem though, that your sons don't have a lot of respect. Maybe some sort of counselling would help?

Hi Derbyshirelass good morning

Good morning everyone

What it is, I just don't understand their dis respect I have Always put them first, maybe it's just their generation because I see behaviour in that generation that my generation would not display, they seem to think they are more intelligent than my generation and that they know better.

I have had to take the day off today from work, because I simply couldn't face getting ready and face the day at work, I have a stressful job

I have had a busy few days trying to distract myself from my sadness and it can be exhausting

I am an optimist at heart and hope something turns up to change my misery

But so so grateful for the help that I have gotten from Gransnetters, it made such a difference for me yesterday when I felt so horrid, being able talk to you all about it

Wish I had such nice friends in 'Real life'

Theodora , you are to be congratulated on a) giving your granddaughters a lovely day out in the midst of your grief, and b) maintaining your cool in front of the children when your son 'went off on one'. You are absolutely right about not arguing in front of the children.
Your son does seem to be browbeating you when he should be supporting you at this time. Was he like this when your husband , (his father?) was alive?
Counselling may help, and when you feel calmer you may be able to talk calmly to your son and make it clear you are not to blame for the way he is treating you. He sounds stressed and under financial pressure, and perhaps you may wish to help him in a structured way, rather than facing increasing requests for money.
Whatever happens, you are not to blame, and you behaved extremely well under trying circumstances.

If they were like this before your husband passed then i would say they are just being very unkind to you. If it is only since then i think that:

- seeing you is reminding them of their grief or guilt (knowing that sometimes people instead feel guilty for not feeling enough grief at these times).
- they don't want to be reminded of that so they feel angry and uncomfortable with it
- you are indirectly the cause of their anger, plus you are there when they are feeling this way,
- so they take it out on you.
- they may not be conciously aware enough to recognise this chain of events within themselves and may genuinely believe in the moment that their anger is justified.

I would refrain from doing anything drastic. You are hurting, but your son doesn't nessesarily know how you've been crying yesterday etc. Perhaps he is worried about his young children being used as emotional crutches. I don't personally believe you would intend this, but he might.

You need to have a level headed discussion when everyone has calmed down.

I think Bluebelles advice is spot on

Why is your one son in so much financial difficulty? Is it because of the pandemic? " months rent paid and £100 here and there adds up to quite a lot of money. Does he need to engage with a social provider (I believe that is what they are called) in order to manage his money better or find cheaper housing? I know the food banks here offer financial advice and support, can help with meal planning, money saving etc. Is this something you could broach in a casual way?

By the way, I bet your Grandchildren had a lovely day out, worry free - so don't put yourself down

At risk of being unkind this all sounds very odd to me. Son rang at 5pm to pick the children up. Then he said he wanted them back earlier so why didn’t he ring before? Surely you make arrangements with grandparents about pick up time before you even drop the gc off? Op may not have been able to have gc so you fix date and times previously. Is this for real?

Hi Theodora hope you're feeling a bit better It's just another viewpoint but it might be possible your sons are acting in this disrespectful way because they're maybe frightened of losing you.

I know confrontation is an odd way to show it but it's possible they're reverting back into kids (for a while) and want things to be the same as always, want you to be the same Mum as always, which is impossible when you're grieving.

A good practical solution to the arrangements confususion on his part is, as welbeck said, comunicate by text then it's documented. It works for me in my family situation, not in a keeping tabs way but there's no denying arrangements if it's there in black & white. Also, if you're sometimes a bit wobbly it gives you time to compose what you're saying.

With regards to your lovely granddaughters, it's possible that the eldest does know what's going on - they're wiser and more knowing than we think and if she's anything like my beloved girl she'll know your love in wanting to protect her from the stress of bad feeling arguments between you and her parent causes and she will be aware that her loving nan/granny is being treated a bit unfairly.

That's not to say she might take sides just that she will possibly have more of an understanding and sympathy of your upset than you might expect at her age.

As all the other posters have said, try to look after yourself in whatever way you can. I didn't want to go to formal counselling - as I saw it for me, I totally get the help it gives others - so I do understand where you're coming from but I still needed to talk about my DH. Writing stuff down helped me maybe it could work for you. In any case, all good wishes Theodora please let us know how you get on.

Hi TheodoraP
I hope you're feeling a little better today and if you're back at work, it will take your mind off things.
Sorry to hear of the loss of your DH and the pain and grief you're going through.
You've had lots of good advice here already so hopefully you'll be able to speak to your DS calmly about how you feel.
Perhaps you can find some bereavement counselling in order to help you come to terms with your loss and adapt to life on your own.

So sorry you’re going through this Theodora. You don’t say how long you’ve been widowed. I lost my husband five years ago and although I’m in another relationship now, the loss is still there and probably always will be. Grief is a journey and from your posts it sounds as though you’re in the early days.

I think maybe your sons are having a hard time coming to terms with the loss of their dad, and so, emotionally, don’t have much left to give to help you. They need to know that the type of grief you are feeling is different to theirs. They may have lost their dad, but you have lost your love and your life partner, and the grief is a physical pain, which at times is overwhelming. It’s not just the person you lose - it’s your whole way of life, and you have to come to terms with this in your own way. Your sons have their own families and they don’t have to adjust to living alone and rebuilding some sort of life.

Everyone handles grief differently, and grief counselling may be helpful. But that’s your decision, and in the early days after a loss, it may be counter productive - you need to be prepared to engage with it fully to benefit, and sometimes some issues are just too painful to deal with at first. Only you will know when you are ready.

In the meantime, there is an excellent widows online support group called WayUp - link is here way-up.co.uk/. It’s an excellent site and the people on there are very supportive of each other. Everyone is at different stages of the grieving journey so there’s a wealth of experience on there - it may be the stepping stone you need towards some sort of counselling, or it may provide the ongoing support you need.

I can tell you from experience, the pain does lessen, you do adjust and you learn to live with the loss. The good memories return and bit by bit, you will enjoy life again.

Please talk to your sons and tell them how you feel and how much their behaviour hurts you, and encourage them to share their feelings with you. Hopefully you’ll find a way through together. Take care.?

Thank you

I have read every post and it has really helped

I am much calmer and you have gotten me through the dark hour Very very grateful x x

Theodora. I feel your pain. I have also been through a lot. All t I can say - this too shall pass and I wish you well

Theodora, not sure if it is relevant to you, but you mention about having RL friends, there are GN meet-up events.
might be one near you.
although if you work, maybe less available. but the occasional day off can be restorative.
just an idea to consider. all the best.
www.gransnet.com/forums/meet_ups_where_are_you

Thank you wellbeck I will take a look at that would be lovely to actually meet some Gransnetters

Sorry you are feeling so fragile Theadora, it is harder than anyone can imagine losing your husband, I still miss mine every day and it’s been a long time. Your son spoilt a lovely day with your gd and went off £10;richer, leaving you feeling wretched, it was very wrong of him, don’t put yourself in that position, stop the money, get definite times in future and get him to write it down.

It seems as if he is taking out other frustrations on you as he can act badly and get away with it. My sister did this with our mother, who was always apologetic and meek in response to sister’s terribly ungrateful behaviour. I don’t know exactly how you should handle this but I would definitely make myself less available to help him out. I’m angry on your behalf!

First and foremost you must remember that your GC had a wonderful day - a treat that they will remember.

Have you spoken to CRUSE? They are an organisation that helps people who have been bereaved. They were a great help to me in the early days - their help is free. www.cruse.org.uk/ They do not do "therapy" as such - they are just a kind listening ear.

But there is nothing wrong with therapy - it can be very helpful. I have sought counselling during dark moments in my life. Your son is using the idea as almost an insult - implying there is something wrong with you. He has got this all wrong! I have had counselling and I can assure you there is nothing wrong with me! - I just recognised that I was troubled by life's bad events and needed a helping hand.

But there is nothing wrong with therapy - it can be very helpful. I have sought counselling during dark moments in my life. Your son is using the idea as almost an insult - implying there is something wrong with you. He has got this all wrong! I have had counselling and I can assure you there is nothing wrong with me! I just recognised that I was troubled by life's bad events and needed a helping hand.

I must admit that it did cross my mind that the OP’s son was using ‘seek counselling’ almost in a derisory way, too. I found bereavement counselling very helpful, but I’m mindful of the advice from my GP to wait a while before doing so. To get the most out of bereavement counselling you need to be prepared to engage fully, and this is difficult in the early days - it can be really hard to face up to some of the issues surrounding loss and grieving. But once you know you’re ready it can be really helpful to talk to someone totally unconnected with the person you’ve lost, as you don’t have to worry about upsetting them or causing offence, so you can explore your feelings more freely.

Theodora, this is abusive behaviour. I think I've read all your posts and I can't see any mention of the children's mother. Is she around or has she left?

This kind of behaviour — not taking adult responsibility, blaming others for things one has messed up, turning a disagreement into a shouting match (I know he didn't shout, but you thought he would if you didn't cave in) and expecting your support without appreciation — is classic abuse. Has he always been like this or is it new behaviour? Is he gambling or dealing with some other addiction?

I suggest you do look for a counsellor. Not because there's anything wrong with you but because you need support to help you stand up to your son. A decent counsellor can help you not just with the grief of being widowed but also with understanding your family dynamics and helping you to create boundaries. I think you might find it could be a game-changer.

In the meantime, offer to look after the children for a specified period of time — and hour or 10-2 or whatever — using text or DM messaging with very clear arrangements spelled out. Pick the children up in your car on the dot and return them to their front door as arranged. Don't give him an opportunity to have a fight with you.

And if he asks you for money, say no. Don't get into a debate about how you might have given him money if he was more polite or appreciative. Just say 'No, it's not possible.'

At some point, if things improve between you, you can have a conversation about whether he (and his wife?) are having financial difficulties and what you may be able to do for them to help. But for the time being it sounds as if you need to reestablish a boundary between you.

Good advice MargotLedbetter I hope you find it useful Theodora