My wife and Daughter in law

Deparate8 well first welcome grandad my heart goes out to you with this dilemma. You will have to be assertive and direct with your wife. Who needs to be told what she will lose if she continues with the childish destructive behaviour.

Give it a bit of time to sink in and then suggest your wife makes an appointment with the doctor. There could be a reason why your wife is behaving as she is anxiety hormones it’s worth consideration.

A serious talk with your son and DIL needs to happen too. Tell them your concerns and that you want your family together not estranged because of your wife’s behaviour. You won’t be piggy in the middle or sitting on the fence but an arbiter of peace hopefully. Let us know how you get on people who try to give advice do like feedback.

Have only read OP but:

Your DIL sounds like an amazing woman. Tell your son to get his head out of the clouds and support her, yes, even if that means going against your wife. Tell your wife firmly she is being unreasonable and unkind. Each time you feel this way, for a while, stand firm and point of that you disagree. Don't let her take your silence as approval. They are your children too, you have a right to an opinion so express it.

Incidently your fears of the outcome here are founded - you are heading for estrangment and your son possibly another divorce. I hope you manage to avoid this.

Sit your wife down and show her this thread. Members of GN argue and disagree but in this case we are unanimous. You are a kind man and don't deserve to be estranged from your son's family which is what will happen. You have done the first stage which is admit there is a problem.

Wow that's a predicament? you have had some excellent advise on here.

IMO you must tell your Son what's going on in her head, that's not healthy? If he's so precious to her he might be a better placed to tell her to Butt out and tell her straight to leave her opinions in her own twisted head.
You will be man in the middle, for a while but if you let this go on longer it will be more damaging.
Best of luck.

Your wife is toxic. I would have to tell her if she phones Social Services you will not support her as you don’t agree with her interfering, your dil is doing a good job. couldn’t stand by and let an injustice to your dil happen. I would have to take the consequences of that. Would also tell your son to man up, his wife and child should be his priority.
Pity you can’t go on a long cruise and leave them to it, joking aside, you shouldn’t have to live with all these dramas unfolding.

Until you and your son confront your wife about her behaviour, nothing will change.

She's got no reason to change, at the moment, because everyone is just putting up with her nonsense.

I would speak very seriously to her, and make it clear that this situation cannot continue. Your son also needs to "man up", confront your wife, and stand up for his. His wife should be his priority.

Or, failing that, move himself and his family far enough away so that they only have to see your wife a couple of times a year.

Your poor DIL - shes got so much going on, and needs support not undermining. Perhaps have a chat with her to show your support?

40+ years ago, I "was" your DIL. Toxic MIL, and upset/chaos all around.

I finally walked away from her, and I never walked back. She didn't see her grandchildren grow up, because her behaviour was impacting on them as well.

And, sooner or later, your DIL will do the same.

Good luck.

You certainly sound a caring husband and father. I would agree that you should have a very serious conversation with your wife first, before any discussion with your son. It’s helpful to remember that words once said can’t be unsaid.
Ask your wife what ultimate outcome she would like to see, from what you have described it can’t be one that would make anyone happy. Then perhaps you could outline your vision of the way forward.
You mention that your wife has no hobbies. Is there something you could do together that would give her a different focus on life? Playing tennis, badminton or joining a rambling group.
As a Grandmother with two DILs I wish you all the best.

You will have to be strong and speak to your wife seriously about this. It seems to me that she is hoping her son’s marriage will fail. Talk to your DIL too and explain that she has at least your support. Honestly, your wife sounds an absolute nightmare. Does she understand that she could easily lose her son and his family with her behaviour?

Thank you very much to everyone for taking the time to read and reply to my post.
I have read your replies with interest and you have given me some good ideas for how to proceed although I will take some time first to think things over.
I agree that it would be better for my wife to develop some interests outside the lives of our adult children and Grandchildren and I have some ideas how to support this.
I have no concerns at all about the care of my Grandson, my daughter in law seems to be doing an excellent job in difficult circumstances and it has crossed my mind if part of my wife's plan is the belief that if she can discredit my daughter in law and drive her away then my son my return home with our Grandson to live however the comments have given me some ideas for how to approach this with her.
I am ashamed that I have not challenged my wife and dealt with this sooner and deeply regret not doing prior to now however as I believe is reasonably common for our generation my wife was always the primary carer of our children and although I love my children and Grandchildren dearly it is only in the last 10 years since I retired that I have become more aware of some of her behaviours although I accept that perhaps this maybe my fault if at times my wife has felt alone.
I think I have some ideas now for how to support my son and daughter in law better and also to help my wife and have further clarity that the two can be separate.
Thank you for your time and support

queen victoria was like this apparently.
but she was a queen, so there is some excuse.
however she was also a widow, and maybe grief and loss also distorted her thinking.
i'm sure if albert had still been around he would have reined in some of her extreme behaviour, as he was a kind and rational man, and he'd had to do that when their children were young.
so think on prince albert. now is the time for you to step up and say, this is wrong, you cannot treat people like this.
good luck.

You sound a nice caring man Desperate8 and challenging your wife isn’t going to be easy which is why you hesitate. But needs must (and deep down you know this). Talk to her at a good time. Sit down and really communicate. You can do this, you are stronger than you think. Empower yourself knowing it’s for the greater good.

My late mum gave me good advice years ago regarding our adult children. ‘Never interfere. Offer advice only if asked, which won’t be often. You’ve had your turn, now it’s theirs. Just regard yourself a safety net which they will drop into if they need”.

Lovely lady, my mum.

Thank you for giving us so much detail. I endorse all the advice given so far.

Regarding conflicting ideas on baby care - ideas change. Your DiL is being an admirable mother, especially breastfeeding successfully after the trauma of a Caesarean. She is giving her baby the very best start in life. Ideas about sleeping positions do change as research makes new discoveries.

Your wife seems unable to see herself as anything but the matriarch, to whom younger members of the family must give unwavering respect. Those days have gone in most families. As you’ll gather from reading posts on here, women and men love their involvement with grandchildren but they have a range of other hobbies and activities in their lives.

I hope you can persuade your wife to retreat from her domination of the younger generation. Having other interests would help her to get things in perspective. As grandparents, being supportive is appreciated but interfering is not. Keep in touch with progress!

It's interesting to hear this problem (which seems quite common) from a different viewpoint/perspective. I'm glad that you are taking an interest although naturally not keen to challenge your wife. I think you should bite the bullet and have a word with your wife. Social services should be a very last resort. If your wife does go down that route she may find that they make a phone call or do a visit but then close the case. In any event I think they would be unlikely to give full time care of a very young child to someone of your wife's age if this is what your wife might be hoping for. This could however completely alienate your daughter in law.
Parenting is not easy. In many ways it seems harder now than it ever was. And in my experience nobody gets better at something by being undermined and made to feel they are rubbish at it.
I think you could approach it by suggesting to your wife that you as a couple put your heads together and try to think of ways to support your son, DIL and grandson as a family unit. I think it's important to support your son to support his wife and family and you and your wife could do that as a couple.
Good luck to all of you.

Aargh done it again . Note to self: Proof read ?

Welcome D8 You would a lovely caring man. Your family are lucky to have your level headed presence.

As others have said, I hope you can talk to your - obviously very caring wife and help her adjust to being a C21st Grandmother.
Encourage her into Grans Net - (you may have to request HQ to remove you post) or maybe show her our responses?

The people our children choose are not always what we might expect although this doesn't mean they're wrong.

My late Dear Pa would say, "oh dear that's a fine state of affairs" and was always there for me to talk to.

Dear Mother, on the other hand, would tell me it was my fault & should do this & that & become hostile if I didn't. I still find it hard to discuss things with her.
I've taken a leaf out of Pa's book with my own children.

It seems your wife will stop at nothing to get her way! She’s a dangerous controlling person to know. My heart goes out to your DIL and yr son to a lesser extent. Cutting contact between yr wife, yr son and dil, will sound drastic, but this situation is drastic…if she will not desist and listen to reason. She simply cannot be allowed to continue in the same vein. Find the courage, make no bones about it…have the talk. Your DIL doesn’t deserve yr wife’s arrogant interference.

PS you say you do not know how to approach this with her . It is never going to be easy especially if you have never challenged her much . If you can’t say the things you have said here then I would suggest that you try writing it all down again, based on what you have written here, and give it to her as a letter. Concentrate on the issue that is most urgent ie the relationship with your daughter in law and the ‘plan’ to contact social services rather than the whole situation with how she has created dependency with your son and daughter . Make it clear, as you have done, that you love her but can’t support her behaviour. You have every right yourself to talk to social services and contradict her ‘tale’. I’m sure they will see how ridiculous she is being .

It’s absolutely time to put your foot down. You have explained very clearly the situation you find yourself in and every sentence rings true. We hear this story from so many grans just like your wife and of course it is never their fault, always the daughter in law.
You need to give your son a shake. He has a wife and he needs to protect her from your nasty vindictive wife. Perhaps ask him to read what you have written here.
Clearly you are long suffering. Why have you not stood up to your wife? By being so passive you are allowing your daughter to remain dependent on her mother and you have allowed your wife to victimise your daughter in law.
You really must man up and put a stop to this abuse.
You must act, and quickly.

Please take a deep breath and try to stay calm in the face of all this turmoil. Your poor daughter in law has had a very difficult time and it would be understandable if she had some level of low mood in the face of all she is going through . She requires support and love not villification. You clearly understand this. Your wife does not and although she may have many good points compassion and kindness do not seem to be amongst them. Are you able to speak to your son privately and tell him all you fear ? Are you able to tell your wife that if she persists in this vein your dil is likely to leave your son taking your grandson with her and will not only break her own heart but everyone else’s as well? You do need to be clear with her that you find her behaviour unacceptable . It sounds like you find this hard and have never been able to do so.Perhaps now is the time to find that strength a d to support your son and dil.

You are a saint - all I can say is , do give your d.i.law your wholehearted support. I am surprised your son sides with his mother. No wonder she is the way she is. Best wishes and hope things settle down. Lots of good advice here

Tell your dil to run if your son refuses to change his priorities, of course

Tell your son he is father and husband now and his wife and child come first- or he will end up divorced again.

As for your wife, may I ask why you are married to her?
She is a gossip, entitled, enmeshed, toxic person.
You do not seem to share any of her traits.

Tell your dil that she should run for the hills and you will be there to support her, no matter what she needs.

Your wife raised your kids to be dependent on her even as adults - may I ask if you ever intervened to stop that behaviour?

What a sad story told by a brave man. You need to remind your wife, and yourself, that it is your family and not just hers. Speak to your son and dil, be sympathetic for the huge emotional turmoil of birth and death that your dil has gone through. You are a good man, now be a good father and father in law, your wife's behaviour risks a schism in your family.

Hello ? and welcome Desperate8, I have read your very clear post and can I say how sorry I am that you are in this unhappy situation.
You need to speak honestly to your wife and tell her how you feel and the risk she is running by being so unpleasant to your daughter in law who has enough to deal with at present.
Please also talk to your son and daughter in law and offer your support,
Sending you best wishes

You should get your son in private and shake him. He needs to get away from your wife or he will lose everything.