am I being unreasonable

In the UK I think you can only bubble if you are living on your own? It’s not two families. It’s one family plus a single person household? Correct me if I’m wrong!

Is your son a single parent? If there are two adults on the house the other he or you are allowed a bubble. A childcare bubble is only for actual childcare such as caring for the kids while the parents are at work.
The only way it would be legal for a visit if he is single not is if your son and the children’s mother were to not be at home. Your not allowed to use childcare bubbles to socialise with other adults, which if it’s not childcare and other adults gone is what you are doing. So not only is it too far it is against the law unless your son is a single parent.

I’ve just read the rules again on childcare bubbles, it still says you can only form a childcare bubble with one other household.
Santana, you might find it helpful to click on MaggieMaybes link and then click again on the childcare bubble link within it.

Maggiemaybe

HannahLoisLuke

Maggiemaybe

So you know that the OP’s family doesn’t include a child under 5 with disabilities, or a baby under 12 months old on 2 December 2020?

How, exactly?

The OP has already said that they don’t need childcare.

They don't need childcare next week. That doesn't mean they don't have children, does it?

We know they have children, the OP has said her son and his family during half term. She also says they don’t need childcare, a superfluous remark if no children are involved.
The point is that her husband wants to visit even though he doesn’t need care and neither do the sons family.
He shouldn’t go.

I think you are in the right. Is your husband using his going as blackmail to get you to give in and go to? Keep to the rules and as suggested above but tell him he will have to self isolate when he comes home and look after himself. Do his own cooking and washing and you will not be shopping for him he can do it online etc, he'll soon change his mind.

If you're in a bubble with them you're allowed to go, though I'd be inclined not to unless you have had at least your first vaccine and it was over 3 weeks ago. After that your chances of becoming badly ill with covid are very much reduced

A ninety minute journey just to visit family hardly constitutes an essential journey does it?
YANBU! Stay home, let OH go and if he gets a fine when stopped by the police just say "I told you so"!

DH in the wrong.
Another take would be - the house to myself for a week. BLISS...

You are definitely doing the right thing. As for “being in their bubble”, I thought you could only be in a support bubble if one of the two households consisted of a single person??? I am on my own and in a support bubble with my brother and sil. They live eight miles away, but we are not visiting each other during the current lockdown as it is totally unnecessary and we all feel very strongly about doing the right thing.

YANBU but is your husband intending to come home to you without isolating? If your son is happy to break the rules to this extent, how often do he and the children break the rules on a daily basis? If they do, then you are going to be at risk when your husband returns.
This is going to be a tricky problem to navigate and you will have to handle this calmly even though you might feel like screaming with frustration. Just stick to your mantra about the rules and don't get into a slanging match with your son. Tell him how disappointed you are that you don't feel you can visit but will love to come as soon as you can.
Talk to your husband in the same vein. Just tell him you would love to come and ask him if he would consider delaying for just a little longer. Tell him that it is very important to you that he stays safe and wants to keep you safe too. Appeal to his better nature rather than throwing criticism.

Anyway, I'm off. The link to the actual rules and guidelines is here again if anyone wants it.

www.gov.uk/guidance/making-a-support-bubble-with-another-household?priority-taxon=774cee22-d896-44c1-a611-e3109cce8eae#who-can-make-a-support-bubble

As someone said way back in the thread, unless the OP comes back and tells us more about her personal situation, we have no way of knowing whether her support bubble situation is legal or not, and all this speculation is pointless. And to be fair, if I were her I wouldn't come back.

Ultimately, its up to you whether you choose to go with your husband or stay behind!
I can understand your concerns, but I can see this turning nasty, with you on one side and your husband and son on the other! Even when lockdown ends (if ever) there are bound to be lasting resentful feelings on the part of your husband and son, and in the long term this could seriously affect your relationship with not only your husband, but also your son, his wife and even your grandchildren! Is that something you are prepared for?
Also, your husband and son are not small children, who can be controlled or dictated to! It is entirely their choice as to whether they are prepared to break the lockdown "Stay Home" restrictions, risk your husband being stopped by the police and being fined. A journey of one and a half hours away isn't really very far, and unless your husband is blatantly flouting lockdown restrictions, then the chances of him getting stopped and fined are fairly remote (although conceivably it could happen)!
Lockdown restrictions mean different things to different people, and maybe, just maybe, at 78 years old, your husband is utterly fed-up of government forced incarceration (as many elderly people are) and he actually wants to see his son and grandchildren while he is still physically able!
None of us know what is around the corner! So if he is prepared to take his chances, let him, and if you don't want to accompany him, then you stay home! Whatever choice you make, you have to live with the consequences of it, but please do not allow this to degenerate into a major family argument, which it has the real potential to do!
I know that most people here are on your side, and what I am saying probably is not what you want to hear! However, in early 2016, I had a major disagreement with my daughter, who lives over 50 miles away. My husband took her side and made excuses for her appalling behaviour! This has resulted in the subsequent deterioration of my relationship with my husband of 37 years to such an extent that I am now considering leaving him! Neither he or my daughter are ever going to admit they were wrong, nor are they going to apologise for the terrible things that they have said to me in anger! This has seriously damaged my mental health! In the end, you have to do what you feel is best for you - being a spoilsport or being unreasonable really doesn't come into it! Good luck!

HannahLoisLuke

Maggiemaybe

So you know that the OP’s family doesn’t include a child under 5 with disabilities, or a baby under 12 months old on 2 December 2020?

How, exactly?

The OP has already said that they don’t need childcare.

They don't need childcare next week. That doesn't mean they don't have children, does it?

Haven't we all become barrack room lawyers since the advent of Covid-19!!! Regardless of whether this proposed trip breaks any regulations or goes against advice, he clearly wishes to see his son and grandchild/ren. Let's extend this man some sympathy. He is 78 - he would like to see his family. Presumably, having been born in the War, lived through the Cold War and nuclear threats, recessions, strikes, the Asian flu, the Hong Kong flu (similar death rates according to WHO classification), he has decided that his family means more to him. He is unlikely to come into contact with anyone else. He will have had one shot of the vaccine. His wife has made a different calculation of her risks, and that is HER choice, which should also be respected.

HannahLoisLuke

Santana

I agree that so many people are misunderstanding the 'bubble' term.
If you say 'support bubble' it should be easier to grasp. I have a daughter who is a single parent, living locally, so they need my support. We can behave as one household. The same would be true if I were supporting an elderly relative and not a single parent.
To say that I can support my daughter if she lived hours away is not a true and sensible interpretation of the rules.
I am also in a childcare bubble with my other daughter. I collect her 5 yr old at the door, and we do no socialise. I do not mix my bubbles as this would be a risk.
We all live close so understand how fortunate we are.

From how I’ve read the guidelines/rules you can only be in a support bubble with one other household.

Again, HannahLoisLuke, the guidelines say:

A support bubble is different to a childcare bubble. Being in a support bubble does not stop you from forming a childcare bubble.

You might be able to form a childcare bubble to provide or receive childcare from one other household if you live with someone under the age of 14.

However, you must not meet socially with your childcare bubble, and must avoid seeing members of your childcare and support bubbles at the same time.

Santana is quite right.

HannahLoisLuke

Maggiemaybe

www.gov.uk/guidance/making-a-support-bubble-with-another-household#who-can-make-a-support-bubble

I’ve read these guidelines over and over and nowhere can I see anything about a couple or half of a couple forming a bubble with anyone else. All the criteria seems to be for people living alone, people with a child under one, teenagers living together with no adults, people living with someone disabled. Please tell me where it says a healthy person living with a healthy partner can go and visit another family.

A support bubble consists of two households.

A support bubble can be formed if one of the households contains a baby under 12 months on 2 December 2020 or a disabled child under 5.

As it says quite clearly in the guidance, if this applies to your household, You can form a support bubble with another household of any size. It doesn't matter whether the OP and her husband are healthy or not - they are the second household, the support element of the support bubble.

So in this case, if the OP's son has a baby or disabled child under 5, his household can quite legally form a support bubble with the OP and her husband.

You are in the right. Keep going.

Santana

I agree that so many people are misunderstanding the 'bubble' term.
If you say 'support bubble' it should be easier to grasp. I have a daughter who is a single parent, living locally, so they need my support. We can behave as one household. The same would be true if I were supporting an elderly relative and not a single parent.
To say that I can support my daughter if she lived hours away is not a true and sensible interpretation of the rules.
I am also in a childcare bubble with my other daughter. I collect her 5 yr old at the door, and we do no socialise. I do not mix my bubbles as this would be a risk.
We all live close so understand how fortunate we are.

From how I’ve read the guidelines/rules you can only be in a support bubble with one other household.

Maggiemaybe

So you know that the OP’s family doesn’t include a child under 5 with disabilities, or a baby under 12 months old on 2 December 2020?

How, exactly?

The OP has already said that they don’t need childcare.

Your husband is breaking the rules as far as I see it. Stick to your guns...

Riggie, i stand corrected then.but most are not broke up, but maybe lockdown has changed the term & half- term dates?

I think really that theres too many 'get out clauses' with all these different 'bubbles' its the same with the multiple 'reasons' not to have to wear a mask- too many opt-out reasons-(other countries dont seem to have all that- just a straight full lock down) so it muddy's the waters and allows folk to traipse around spreading the virus which they might not even know they have! Its ridiculous. STAY LOCAL means just that.Not an hour & a half trip.(did no one learn from Cummings mistakes?) Clearly Frue did..So no she isnt being unreasonable to not go.Now she needs to tackle her son about it.by ringing up.I don't envy her that but it has to be done in her and her DH's best interests.(is her son going to pay a huge fine for his dad?) Probably not.?

From what you have said, I would feel exactly as you do. Your husband is not only flouting the rules and the spirit of those rules. He is also reckless.

I think you already believe quite strongly that you are right and just want everyone else to agree with you. After all, you have already made your decision so what's the point in seeking justification for it?

HanahLoisLuke-?