sons and their wives

Thanks Tickingbird. I hoped very much by marrying a non dramatic man that my sons would be influenced by him...we hoped by nurture that we could overcome the past. But we were wrong and have suffered for it.

OP I think you hit the nail on the head with nature/nurture. Without going into detail I have experience of this and it is often genetic and also in studies, it’s been found that children are very much influenced up to 2 yrs of age. So if your ex was abusive when these boys were tiny it’s been absorbed i to their psyche.

Also I didn’t see anything in your OP that was placing blame on your DIL.

“Traits - good and bad”

Lavazza1st, Reading about the background of your family I think you have tried very hard to be supportive to your sons. I genuinely beleive our children inherit traits from both parents and as your sons have got older, these traits - good and - manifest. I feel you have done all you can to be supportive but dealing with mental illness and also abuse can be overwhelming. You cannot change these inbred traits in your sons but take a step back to limit your exposure to more heartache. No doubt you have sought counselling for yourself to try to understand the situation. This is not your fault.

It has got violent in the past and my DH is wary of him. He felt he was escalating the other day and said he walked away as he felt at risk.

MH issues: drink and drugs, self harm: particularly self harm when he claimed that he had been attacked but medical professionals and police who attended the scene felt that he had done it to himself.

A few times he had been rushed into hospital after collapsing- it has been suggested that he OD-ed for attention/drama rather than there being a medical cause.

Whenever he has been under extreme pressure, he stops eating and also once ignored me for two whole weeks while living in the same house. Before he was sectioned he was not washing, eating or leaving his room and had been injecting something and barricaded himself in. We were worried about OD as it had been suggested before.

Obviously after the section he was very displeased and now many years on seems to hold a grudge.

My profound sympathy. As their father was abusive this rather sounds that they have inherited his trait and I am rather concerned about the Mental Health issues, as the aggressive behavior is escalating, do you think it might get violent?.

Can you shed any light how the MH issues presented themselves in their teenage years, was drink or drug use involved to your knowledge.

@Lolo81 He was abused by my ex. He may have some PTSD but he ha never been willing to engage with any of the psychiatrists and therapists I have taken him to. He is very dismissive of counsellors as well. I am a bit clueless as to know what to suggest.

@annodomini thats really nice I was like that with DS's ex fiance. He does pick nice girls, I'll say that for him! His wife seems nice! I hope we can move forwards for his sake and also because of my GC.

In contrast, My eldest DS always picked awful girls who were mean to my other kids and rude and dissmissive of me. His wife, my DIL who I mentioned last year behaved appallingly. Unfortunately eldest DS is close to his abusive Dad and takes after him a lot. He had spent all his formative years with this man, to my regret.

I was good friends with my DiL well before the marriage and I'm still her friend now they're divorced. Same with my other son's partner - they have been together for 25 years and still are. Neither of my sons would dream of abusing me.

@Lavazza1st given that you say your son has MH issues and was at least witness to abuse as a child it may be some sort of PTSD type trigger being back in his childhood home (regardless of actual address he is back at home with his parent) and that is affecting his ability to process emotion so he is lashing out verbally? In no way does this excuse his behaviour, but if this is only occurring with you and in your home it would be a starting point for him to address with councillors or MH professionals.

good for your brother , LovelyCuppa

No, my brother is never abusive to my mum, whether in front of his wife or not.

Yes shes come from abroad and we only met her four weeks ago, She seems lovely and is finding my sons moods difficult as well. She hasnt said loads but I feel we are on a similar wavelength - but of course, he doesnt want us to get along. (not sure why but he could be ill and paranoid)

She did not know about his MH until a few days ago when he started shouting at me about his section a few years ago...

My youngest is lovely, no problems and hes single too- plenty of time for him to find someone. He does not remember growing up with his abusive Dad and I think he had a better childhood because his formative years were spent with his stepdad not his abusive dad - unlike the older two.
Thanks V3ra x

Oh Lavazza1st I do feel for you. You really must wonder why you bothered with all three of them.
Has this daughter-in-law come from abroad as well? It sounds like she needs a friend in you x

I had to ask because I would NEVER speak to my parents like that. At times I have felt like they favouritised etc but I would never have said so because I accept they did their best.

It does really hurt. Their Dad is still abusive to me, now. I dont have to see him much fortunately as he is very unstable and doesnt visit them for months/ years at a time.

This family issue sounds so complex and like an iceberg, most of it is out of sight, that I am not prepared to make any comment about it whatsoever.

All I will say is in answer to the question: How normal is it for sons to verbally abuse/ shame their mother in front of their wife? Completely beyond the pale, whether in front of his wife or not. Neither my father, DH or DS have ever done anything like that, or come anywhere near it.

Well, I dont know. I brought them up well, I thought. They seemed fine until they lived away from home- but they both got disrespectful to me in front of their partners so I am wondering why.

I have been friendly to both DIL, weve bought them loads of stuff, not interfered- I cook for them, havent asked them to do anything and have been just giving them space,

DS1 had MH issues and chose at the age of 17 to not involve us in his treatment, meaning we could not support him in an informed way. He also turned down family therapy.

DS2 has had far worse MH issues and was not offered family therapy as he refused to engage with adolescent MH services. We did the best we could, but obviously we have failed.

There's got to be two sides to a story.

@Phoenix, that was another of my DS's with the Chinese wife- who is now estranged from us. I am trying not to have another estrangement...

I was wondering if it was a thing that boys did because my eldest treated me badly in front of his wife first- but this DS was not in the country at the time, so has definitely not been influenced by his brother.

Their Dad is an abusive man and I have unfortunately seen abusive traits in both of them. I have done my best to bring them up and given them a stable home which we did not have with their Dad. Quite honestly, sometimes I feel like I wasted my time because they cause me so much pain. I feel like nurture was not good enough and that some of its genetic.

Thanks for the messages. DS has had bouts of mental health issues and has been aggressive to family before. I've been used to the odd trying times with him, but he seems to be worse now his wife is here. It's the first time they've stayed with us.

Dil is making a lot of effort and seems apologetic. I heard that he fell out with her family too. Apparently some of her family beat him up. I know he's my son, but he is really pushing it. He has sent my husband challenging emails as well...

I honestly don't blame DIL. She seems nice and we've even cooked together. By the way, he refused to eat the meal we both cooked! That night he cooked his own dinner. I think possibly he wants us to not get along, which is sad and awkward.

It's not ok to make women responsible for mens poor behaviour.

I loved the exes mother, she was lovely and very kind to me . Obviously she took a step back when I left him. DS isn't in a relationship, but if he was I hope would try to be a good MIL. My DD has a great relationship with her MIL

Weren't WE all DILs ?

I dont understand this determination to make every DIL an enemy.Weren't you all DIL ? Did you all force your husbands to be obnoxious to their mother and it s eems its always the MIL never the FIL who has the issues.

For the record I love my MIL to bits ,she says I'm a daughter to her ,I love my DIL we get on great .I see my son most days he calls me every day or mshgs me.DIL doesn't think there are ulterior motives she understands we've always been a close family .

I have to wonder if some women bring this on themsleves ,sons ,like daughters grow up and make their own lives and we as mothers must accept that ...its how life works .I would be delighted if my AD didn't need me as much as she does,it would mean she was fit and healthy and able to cope .Be happy for your son and DIL and let them go

Lavazza was it you that posted about the Chinese daughter in law a while ago? If it was, I seem to remember you did have quite a few problems when they moved in with you.

Yes bridgeit that is the hackneyed old phrase that's dragged out every time the subject of DiL's crops up here. Banal, meaningless and largely untrue!!
Sorry about your situation OP but only you and your son can sort this out!