Veganism, genuine questions.

I know a few people who produce quite a lot of hot air.

Yes, isn't it cows bums that produce the most methane?

Is the rise in veganism/vegetarianism potentially increasing global warming? One of the major contributors to current earth warming is said to be methane.
Every time I try to increase my vegetable intake, my methane output increases pro-rate

My post was addressed to Alexa btw.

The rules and regulations are set by state governments.

The practice of cutting living flesh from the backsides of sheep to stop insect infestations is abominably cruel.
Do you have any proof at all that this happens?

Cutting flesh would result in a worse infestation.

The Australian farming industry is having a bad enough time as it is with drought, floods, etc without spreading unsubstantiated rumours.

I really would like to see a guaranteed explanation of that. because as far as I can see it is contradictory. Trimming the wool on their backsides, yes, that stops it getting claggy with faeces (sheep are not great buyers of toilet paper, not even the soothing moist variety) but cutting off flesh leaving an open wound will attract the very bluebottles that it is said to prevent. Is this really a deliberate policy, or is it an accident that sometimes happens when the stockmen are clumsy and careless while doing piecework and trimming large numbers of mucky bums with one eye on their total numbers?

But not right now, please., I'd like to sleep well tonight.

Most sheep are sheared by workers on piece work who do in fact cut the sheep who is being sheared.

The practice of cutting living flesh from the backsides of sheep to stop insect infestations is abominably cruel.

I suppose it depends on your definition of lots.
I can name three straight away, and they are offshoots of my huge circle of 2 friends.
Still, all of that is by the by, really.

What would all the knitters of this world do?! It's a wonderful, rewarding, relaxing hobby.

I doubt if lots of people do not have gas, electricity or access to a cooker, even among those using Food Banks.

I am not downplaying the real problems of people who are in that position, I just do not think there are lots of them.

They also need to have the facilities; the gas, the electric and access to a cooker.
Lots of people haven't those things.

and what they do have is food from the Food Bank which may be 'nutritionally balanced' - as far as possible - but will not be fresh and may consist of tinned meat of some kind, tinned vegetables, tinned fruit, custard, packeted food etc

Many decades ago I moved to buying only organic or virtually organic meat because of I wanted to be sure the animals I ate had the best possible lives when living and good conditions at slaughter. Yes, organic meat is expensive but there is an easy solution, which is to eat smaller portions of meat and explore the wide range of foods and recipes available these days.

I now make a casserole or stew with 1lb of meat and lots of veg. Where as in the past a lb of meat fed four, I will now get eight portions from the casserole because of the extra veg. There are such a wide variety of foods and cuisines available these days, buying better meat, but less is entirely possible.

I would like to think the supermarkets were monitoring as closely as David suggest but the buying driver behind all supermarkets is low cost, low price, and if high UK standards means the meat is not price competitive with imported meat, the supermarkets will buy abroad and that inevitably means lower welfare and slaughter house practices and since not every abattoir in the UK will be monitored 24/7 there standards will drop as well.

What I do not quite understand about Vegans is why their reaction to something being done badly and cruelly, in some cases is to instantly demand that is banned, not that we should have higher standards and they should be implemented. Nothing in life is ever done perfectly all the time.

Further up the thread I pointed out that many people have suffered botched operations. There are bad and obsessive surgeons, or a flawed procedure was being used or the inevitable mistake that the best surgeon can make has happened. Some times a poor surgeon has stayed in post even though other staff members know people are suffering as a result.

But no-one has ever suggest we ban all surgery as a result. The call is for improved standards and improved monitoring. Why not campaign to do that with shearing and meat production rather than wanting them banned.

They also need to have the facilities; the gas, the electric and access to a cooker.
Lots of people haven't those things.

Everything goes back to a lack of basic cooking skills.

Cooking from scratch using fresh ingredients is far cheaper than buying processed foods but unless people either know how or have the desire to cook they're going to seek out cheap, processed ready meals.

Veggie or meat - it doesn't make any difference.

Sorry, I was not clear, I was not literally comparing birds eating slugs with Christians being eaten by lions, it was an analogy.

What I was saying that is putting snails and slugs on a large flat area of greensward with no where to hide(in the same way the Colosseum is a large flat area with nowhere to hide) a habitat they do not normally occupy, in order that they may be visible to predators and have no means of protecting themselves from them, seems to me to go completely against the philosophy behind veganism.

Snails and slugs in their natural habitat, do get eaten, but also avoid it by staying under cover, among leaves etc. A slug or snail taken out of its habitat and put somewhere where it can be seen and has no protection, is something else entirely - and a recommendation to do this from a vegan[shocked]

Healthy fresh food can be cheaper than processed foods.

No, it is better than nothing if you haven't much money.

It is good if you haven't much money.

Cheap food is NOT good David.

It good that Craftycat uses her local butcher, like her I also buy meat, especially Beef from him. We are lucky to have a small abattoir close by, which small butchers use and we pay the price because we can. The vast majority do not have our luxury, they have to buy standardized offerings to supermarket specifications and price. It’s pretty good and because of competition the lowest price.

Veganism aside, don’t condemn large scale food production be it Dairy cows, Chickens or Pigs, these large units provide the consumer with cheaper food because of economies of scale.
In terms of animal welfare they are the best, they have to be because the supervision by supermarkets and vets is pretty much 24/7, if something goes wrong the penalties are severe, so have no fear about large UK units they provide what the consumer wants.

It would be nice to have smaller slaughterhouses but because of the cost of supervision and building costs it simply isn’t economic, this results in much longer journey times. It might be attractive to some to turn the clock back 50 yrs, when each small town had 2 abbatiors but that is not going to happen.

Hope you visited the abattoirs too.

I was vegetarian for 25 years- never Vegan. I taught Veggie cooking at Adult Education too.
Now I do eat meat ( 2nd husband refused point blank not to eat meat - 2 sons from 1st marriage said if he got meat they wanted it & eventually I joined them- just got fed up cooking 2 meals every night.)
I do, however, go to a very good butcher who knows exactly where all his meat comes from & can tell you the fields to go to see them. He is also passionate about animal welfare & believes happy animals give better meat. I know his meat is like nothing else I have ever tasted & I have been to some of the farms to check them out & was made very welcome.
I do still eat some veggie food & enjoy it but I think you need to decide for yourself on this matter of conscience.I'd never preach to anyone else- it is a personal thing.

I don’t think you can equate birds eating slugs to throwing Christians to the lions. Maybe that particular vegan gardener should have found a dark place to rehome said slugs, however, slugs are common food for birds, frogs and other species they are adept at picking them out from plants and from seemingly dark corners . I don’t think lions in the wild would necessarily seek out Christians as a major food source. The difference is, humans in the West mostly have some choice about what they eat, birds and other wild creatures have fewer choices and will only eat what is immediately available in their habitat. Yes, humans can survive in many different environments, but in many countries these days, meat is not an essential part of human diet, we can live quite healthily on little or no meat if that is your choice. It’s not compulsory to eat meat in our complex society, any more than it is compulsory not to - it’s a choice. If you choose to eat meat, fine, that’s your choice, just as not eating it is a choice. people make their choices for many different reasons - habit, income, family pressures, ethical or environmental concerns. No one can say others are “right” or “wrong”.