Charlie Gard

Unless you have held your dead baby Bluebell and wanted to hold onto the little body even though you know you have to let go and know the emptiness of the empty arms as the little body is taken out of the room then you will never know the relevance of my question.

pursue

Most of us are showing enormous empathy even whilst not agreeing with the way the parents are now dealing with their situation.
They are not accepting the inevitable and some of us feel, rightly or wrongly, that the longer it goes on , the harder it will be.

I don't understand your angry post AB no I haven't had a baby die there but I m not sure how that is relevant I have no reason to imagine any hospital especially one in the middle of a media circus would not bend over backwards to make Charlie's end comfortable and peaceful for him and his parents
Why would you think the opposite ?

Some horrible comments on here. I'm shocked by the lack of empathy some posters show for these parents.

I suppose the parents have been encouraged to turn into 'slebs' by the media and the 'Charlies army' lot and feel quite right to continue to be demanding of what now seem quite inappropriate concessions and consideration.
How must other parents feel seeing all this? Where else could the money GOSH was forced to spend on the legal case have been spent? How many other families suffered as a result of this?
I was sorry for the parents but now I'm sorrier for poor long lost Charlie and all the others affected by this long drawn out affair. I'm being polite BTW.

Yeah Paddyann I do know the purpose of a hospice, I support my local childrens' hospice and my brother died in one I don't think I need the emphasis of your patronising capital letters to point out their purpose. If Charlie is moved, his beeping machinery presumably will have to accompany him and it's the logistics I was questioning. The parents seem now quite dogged in their determination to persue their wishes over the advice of the doctors.

That's not a very nice thing to say, Anniebach.

Bluebell, you know or you think that is how his death and his parents grief will be dealt with? Have you had a baby die there?

Paddyann I m absolutely sure Charlie would be in a very safe and quiet environment at the hospital I doubt if he is in a main ward with people running around Hospices are there to make the last months, weeks or days or someone's life as pleasant as possible as Eglantine has pointed out the babe is already brain dead he has no life I am darned sure the hospital would make the ending every bit as peaceful as possible for the parents and Charlie
They have lived through a totally out of control scenario they want to grab what control they can but it is getting beyond that now it's becoming a fight
When my mum who was in hospital was given a short time to live we were wheeled into a side room I was given an easy chair and a pillow and blanket I was brought tea and offered porridge ( it was early morning ) i sat quietly with her holding her hand to the end, the staff even told me if she lasted another night they would bring me a fold up bed to have alongside her bed I couldn't have asked for more and I m sure GOSH would bend over backwards to accommodate the parents need for a quiet end

BB ... I see what you mean and do agree, just thinking about the logistics is unbearable.

There seems to an idea that when the life support machine is turned off he will gently fade away. When the machine is turned off he will be dead. Instantly. No last few breaths, no last few minutes. His own heart does not beat, he cannot draw even one fleeting breath. Only the machine gives him a semblance of life. It seems they are planning to keep him like this as long as they can. It begins to border on the macabre. I don't know how anyone can help them.

TerriBull it matters to THEM where they spend his last hours....as it does to all the people who go to hospices at the end of their lives .THATS whay hospices are there isn't it Where do you want to die? In a safe environement with your loved ones around you or in a hospital ward with bleeping machinery all around and other peoples families witnessing it.TRY to put yourself in their shoes .I've had friends who chose the hospice route and it makes it a much better end for them and their families

So agree Merlotgran why move him at all And that's what I was meaning Lillie why does he have to be moved to a hospice he has everything he needs why the whole disruption to his poor little body Let him go where he is and where he has been most of his life
I now think the parents are just digging their heels in with their demands almost like punishment everyone is bending over backwards to help the little one and I think they need to look beyond being the 'wronged' parents and see how much help surport and empathy they have been given

I've come to this discussion late. For fear of being taken to task most people are wary of saying what they really think. IMO it's a matter of control.

Reading between the lines the judge would not wish to set a precedent, if the parents wishes were granted it would open the floodgates for unrealistic demands from other parents.

I fail to see why Charlie needs to go into a hospice. All his needs have been met by GOSH and his parents are now coming to terms with the sad fact that they have to let him go. Why not let him slip away without all the upheaval?

What about the parents of other desperately ill children in whichever hospice agrees to take him? Their sorrow will be compounded by the media intrusion.

Sorry, I just don't get it.

Stop keeping on , your child isn't the only sick child in the country, you are causing problems for the hospital, let him die and replace him with a healthier specimen

That mother needs to spend a few hours on here

It is all so dreadfully sad.

I don't think we will have heard the last of this though, even after poor Charlie is gone - I have a feeling that his parents will be giving a lot of newspaper and tv interviews soon - not sure why, but they seem that way.

I agree with your post BlueBell, GOSH is full of sick babies and children. The parents have accepted that their poor little boy doesn't have any brain activity and his life support must be switched off, I'm not sure what difference it will make where they spend their last hours with him. The logistics of their demands are quite unreasonable it's not great turning the whole unhappy saga into a public spectacle for anyone, not for the other parents who have to visit their sick children at the hospital, or the medical staff. I hope the parents can move on with their lives after this and hopefully have another child who will be healthy and bring them joy. I've come late to this thread and confess haven't read through the whole of it, but those who people who comprise of "Charlie's Army" What good are they doing No doubt that's been discussed already.

Yes, BB, but no one in their right mind would want to take the machines off within a few hours of walking through the doors of a strange place. It will take ages to settle Charlie in, then the parents and family members will want goodbye time, hence the need for several shifts of non hospice personnel. The GOSH nurses have offered to do 12 hour shifts, so they must be anticipating this could last for days.

Lillie I thought the whole point of taking him to the hospice was to take the machines off and let him go in his little way
I think this is turning into a madness which is not nice to witness

This poor little chap - his parents need to let him go. The longer this goes on the more traumatic the end and its subsequent grief are likely to be. The parents seem to have been seduced by the sense of power that being in court and the media following have created; if only they could have some peace and privacy to let this little boy go now.

They look so young themselves - how on earth can they handle this with some sense of balance when emotions are running so high? What they need is a counsellor to walk beside them in this process.

And finda hospice with enough space and willing to take Charlie and his equipment etc.

I think the hospices aren't allowed to care for intensively ventilated children and that is why he would die within hours if transferred. I assume the parents can get round that issue by taking their own medical team with them to the hospice, thereby giving them the extra days they want.
Once again, GOSH is not obstructing this, but I guess they are having to scour the land for a paediatric specialist in this field and sort everything out in minute detail.

They want him kept alive for "an indefinite period" . That is why they want their own team.
They are unable to let him go. Poor them and poor Charlie.