Children left alone

Just to add that it is not recommended to leave under 16's alone overnight. I think you mentioned night shifts, which in my view present a very different problem from day shifts. I think children's services and the police may take a dim view of children being left alone overnight, and your DIL needs to be aware of this.

sorry funnygran, x posted with you there.

As someone has already said what else can your daughter in law do ? There is no specified age in this country for when it is legally ok to leave children alone. It's part of parental responsibility to make suitable arrangements and for most families, leaving 12 and 13 year olds together at home, for reasonable periods of time would be acceptable. If anything goes wrong, the parent may be prosecuted for abandonment or neglect. I'm thinking of those parents who go off on drug/alcohol binges for 3 days, or take themselves off to Spain for a week for example.
You say they are lovely girls so I expect their mum will talk with them about what they can/can't do after school when they're home alone. I wouldn't over worry about this. Annodomio is right I think, children tend to rise to the occasion when given some responsibility.

Thanks for your comments and yes I suppose we are more overprotective these days or more inclined to see danger. There's no input from the girl's father tanith - bit of a long story and don't think he's bothered what they do.

I was a latch key child from the age of 7. Big brother was supposed to be in charge but was often late in. In those days the house was freezing-no central heating and I was forbidden to light the fire. We hadn't a phone and neither had anyone else. I think a 12 and 13 year old should be fine. so many ways to keep in touch and know what they are doing today.

I agree children should be independent when they are ready for the responsibility. Each one matures differently so presumably Mum knows her daughters ability. I would be a bit concerned about this being a regular occurrence and other people being aware of this. As you live too far away to help you can offer a phone call for advice and support maybe.

Sorry about that inexplicable repetition. Oh well, if it's worth saying....

Two of my GC, 14(almost) and 12, cycle home from school and usually look after themselves, depending on my DS's work schedule. They are both very responsible and make a point of doing their homework as soon as they get home as they are likely to have evening activities. DDiL, who has a high-powered job in education, arrives home a bit later. Both DC have mobile phones and there are neighbours whom they can contact if they have a problem. My feeling is that if children are brought up to be independent and responsible, they won't abuse the situation after school.

Two of my GC, 14(almost) and 12, cycle home from school and usually look after themselves, depending on my DS's work schedule. They are both very responsible and make a point of doing their homework as soon as they get home as they are likely to have evening activities. DDiL, who has a high-powered job in education, arrives home a bit later. Both DC have mobile phones and there are neighbours whom they can contact if they have a problem. My feeling is that if children are brought up to be independent and responsible, they won't abuse the situation after school.

Two of my GC, 14(almost) and 12, cycle home from school and usually look after themselves, depending on my DS's work schedule. They are both very responsible and make a point of doing their homework as soon as they get home as they are likely to have evening activities. DDiL, who has a high-powered job in education, arrives home a bit later. Both DC have mobile phones and there are neighbours whom they can contact if they have a problem. My feeling is that if children are brought up to be independent and responsible, they won't abuse the situation after school.

They are not your relations so leave it to their Mother to sort it

As long as they are fairly sensible girls I can't see a problem with it but do wonder what exactly you expect your dil to do other than pay for more child care? She obviously needs to work to keep her children. Maybe when your son gets work he could contribute towards the cost if he is very concerned. Do they not have a father contributing to the household budget?

Back in the late 70s, our kids had to mind themselves during the school holidays whilst we were at work. The 3 girls were 14, 13 and 11, and the boys were 9 and 7. They were quite happy about it, and everything was going just fine, until somebody reported us to social services. We were visited by a couple of very officious people, who informed us that the kids had to be placed in holiday playgroups, which didn`t please the kids one iota. Eventually it was sorted by our neighbour telling SS that she`d be keeping an eye on them.

I think parens were far more laissez faire when a lot of our generation were growing up. My mother went back to work when I was in junior school so my brother and I were latch key kids for a couple of hours, it wasn't a big deal there was far less fussing and faffing over children then. Having said that I would never have left my children on their own at that age and I wouldn't have entrusted my younger child to have been looked after by my older one as I didn't consider him responsible enough. I had a friend who asked her older child to look after the younger one when they went out and they had to come home because the older one locked the younger one out We always had an adult with ours until our younger one was well into his teens (grown up half siblings were a great help) if we couldn't be there.

I used to come home on my own (school bus) from about 13 I think. We lived in a tiny village so there was never any likelihood of hoards of friends coming round (disappointingly for me).

I did run up a MASSIVE phone bill though

I really do think that it depends on the child - some can be very grounded at that age and others totally flighty and unreliable. And they can change - a sensible child can start to go a bit crazy when the hormones kick in.

There need to be some clear ground rules for them - what is allowed and what not; who to contact in an emergency and how etc.

I used to babysit my little sister all evening when I was about 11 - we have survived!

I was a latch key kid at 10-11. I'd catch the bus home from school alone. Let myself in and wait for mum getting home from work at 5.30 pm so alone for about 2 hrs. The next-door neighbour did keep an eye on me.
I do remember breaking down in tears one day because I wanted mum to be there for me.
Like the op I'd be apprehensive about them being left for several hours but all children are different.

That has just taken me back to the days when my children were then pupils at our very local comp and I was working.
The phone calls to me about "Mum C's being horrible to me." "Mum my sister has just eaten all the bread/marmite/cheese." etc etc.
I was not the only person at work getting these calls.
I was a social worker manning a duty desk telephone. I never found a serious problem with how my children behaved then but you do need to "know your children."

It's good that there are neighbours who can keep an eye out.

I think 12 and 13 is ok to be left. Children are pretty independent by then usually. Depends on the children and their level of sensibleness.

As a pp says, there's no real guideline, so quite tricky to call.

It depends on how sensible they are.They are of secondary school age and I don't really see any problem.We tend to mollycoddle nowadays rather than give responsibility.I was left on my own from about 11 and thoroughly enjoyed it. I had my own key and could go in and out at will.Itwas never for more than about 3 hours at a time though.

Yes they have phone numbers and the maternal grandmother is just a few miles away although works full time. My son wasn't really contributing as a househusband but probably saving them money in childcare, housekeeping etc. He will now look for work to contribute financially. Day shifts are 13 hours and I don't think DIL has even thought about what happens on night shifts. She is a bit of a dreamer and obviously thinks everything will be OK. Maybe I worry too much but life can be complicated. They do live on the edge of a very quiet and quite rural estate so the neighbours would soon report back to her on any bad behaviour.

I worked in children's services for many years. Although a particular age has not no been set down as when children can be left I think that 12 and 13 is too young to be on their own for anything other than a relatively short period of time. and should anything happen their parent/s could and would be called to account. Your fears about the house becoming a general open house are well founded. This often happens in similar situations, especially as they get a little older. They are too young to police who comes in to the home and situations can get out of control.
It does depend on exactly how long and often they are to be left but if their mother does long shifts it would appear it could be hours that they are on their own.
is your son contributing towards his children's care? it is expensive and a problem which affects everyone, especially in school holidays, but perhaps their mother will change her hours to better accommodate the new dpsituation. It is early days, perhaps there may be a reconciliation. Wishing you well, it's understandable that you are concerned.

Will they have the number of someone living close by that they can ring in an emergency, if Mum is uncontactable?

What are the hours of the shifts the girls' mum will be working. Not very nice for youngsters to come home from school to an empty house IMO. Wouldn't worry too much about the house becoming "open house". So long as they don't wreck the place, where's the harm in it?

Not ideal, but will probably work out alright. I don't see what you can do from fifty miles away.