daughter-in-law from hell

(Shakes head in disbelief........)

No to that paragraph janeainsworth.
But I used to record mine and the kids disagreements occasionally[they knew this was happening], to play them back and see what we said, and just as importantly how we said it. It taught us all a lot.

The OP said a kind of low-level bullying.
I'm not sure there is such a thing.
If it's not real bullying, it's not bullying.

Just gobby and argumentative
<pedant alert>

Soon do you follow your own advice and record conversations you have with people you don't like?
<idea>Do you save in a special folder all the threads on Gransnet where people have disagreed with you?

a kind of low level bullying

I suppose how you interpret that is subjective ; stroppy or gobby could both fall into that category depending on your point of view. Overbearing, also.
It seems significant that OP thinks her DIL is " jealous " of OP's relationship with her own daughter. What could have given her that idea? Maybe DIL is feeling outnumbered and left out and is (over) compensating. Who other than OP knows?

Whatever, let's accept that not every "in law" relationship is 100% sweetness and light. Live and let live.

In this thread a poster is believed more than the op!

Ideally fluttERBY123 will post again if she wants, to give us more information if she is so inclined.
If not, she is free to do what she wants as regards taking any advice from any of the suggestions offered.

The op doesnt say gobby and argumentative.

The op mentions bullying in her opening post.

she has a knack with myself and my daughter of making us feel all the time that we have done something wrong

Where does this equate to bullying of OP and her daughter?
Over-reaction or what? Let's not escalate this into something toxic, surely 2 grown women can handle gobby and argumentative? There are two of you and one of her after all. Maybe she feels outnumbered and has to keep her end up.
In the overall scheme of things it sounds as if teacups and storms figure both in the initial scenario and some of the responses.

Instead of thinking of her as the DiL from hell just think of her as someone who you do not really like.We do not like everyone we meet but we tolerate neighbours,colleagues and family members. If she makes your son happy be grateful,that isn't always the case sadly.

Let's not get bogged down in what was only a suggestion. I think Soon has got the message.

To be honest 'the DiL from hell' sounds a bit OTT going on the little information we have.

I hope the op isnt getting minimised on this thread. Not being listened to. Only she knows how bad it is for her and her DD. And she did say the dil was the dil from hxxx. But that could be a turn of phrase as well.

I vaguely remember similar advice about secretly recording conversations in a problem a year or so ago and similar opinions were expressed. Recording anybody without their knowledge is an appalling infringement of privacy and IMHO could constitute grounds for a complete split from OP's DS.
We are not talking about bullying in a care home here, just 2 adult women who clearly do not get on but also can presumably stand up for themselves. To go down the road of recording and producing this as "evidence" smacks of paranoia.
Somewhere I have missed where DD comes into it?

Mountains? Molehills?

The op used the word bullying. I took her at her word.

Well said, river.

Recording in care homes is usually resorted to as a result of suspected mistreatment; recording family squabbles would only add fuel to the fire IMO.

I do wish people wouldn't misuse the word 'bullying' - the OP hasn't said what DiL actually says so difficult to guage but it doesn't sound like bullying, just gobby and argumentative.

I like the post from Brendawymmms and also FlicketyB on this problem.I think I would do as they suggest, don't appear cold and distant. praise her, and if need be as Flick suggests, pour treacle.She needs a reaction from you, so let it be a positive one.

The OP wants the dil to leave her alone. I am just giving her ideas. She doesnt have to follow through. Only she knows the exact situation, and how bad the bullying is.
The OP and her DD are being bullied. Up to the OP.

Care homes are very different than family homes soontobe. It matters not to me whether you agree with me, I don't like the advice you gave. Can you imagine how this young woman would feel if the advice was followed, can you imagine the fall out in what is already a tense relationship. Brendawymms approach (above) is good advice and from someone who has professional as well as personal experience of the minefield that can be family relationships

The lady and her daughter are getting bullied. She doesnt have to do anything with the recording, or recordings, but at least she will have it.

It is done in care homes, when people suspect that their loved ones are not being cared for well.
So I dont agree with you there Iam64.

Recording people without their knowledge and agreement is not on soon. I do hope the OP doesn't follow that suggestion. It's passive aggressive, and can only add to any unpleasantness.

I think that this thread is slightly different to others that are on gransnet about a dil, in that you said that your son seems quite happy with her and their family[did you mean children, or his ils or both?]. So you really dont want to rock the boat too much.

Which brings you to the relationship between you and your DD and, your dil.
I think Anya has given some good advice for starters. See how her ideas pan out first, and then come back here if they dont work?

My other idea, would have been to record some of what she says to you and your DD.
Bullying is horrible. Low level or otherwise.
Perhaps when you play back a recording in private, you and your DD can listen, and perhaps think that it sounds better than you thought? Or it could be worse. And on no account, play it to other people.
It would be some sort of evidence for you and your DD, but if your son is happy, I dont think playing the recording to him at some point would work in your favour, unless the situation gets quite a lot worse than it is now.

I completely agree with all the comments about rising above it and staying calm. I've done my fair share of this over the past three years and I think it was worth it in the end,

When my OH passed away it was like living in a war zone. I was thinking in my innocence that my grown up kids would be kind - far from it. My three sons were falling out big time and I was caught up in the nightmare of verbal abuse and general nastiness some of it aimed at me.

I became the object of all their grief and shock. The things they called me are unprintable and I was just a sad lonely widow reeling from my DH's sudden death.

My worst experience among many others was standing at a bus stop after a verbal attack from my Dil. She had called me cold, unfeeling .... it just went on and on.

I had to ring a taxi because I thought I was going to pass out. She had recently lost her mum to cancer and I knew it had hit her hard, but I had just lost my husband of 44 years.

However - I stayed calm throughout all of it and went to Counsellors who helped me through. If I had retaliated things would have become much worse I'm sure.

The only thing is does all this keeping calm effect your health.????

And how will that make things better Lorie ?

Don't engage, I repeat, "don't engage". These are dangerous grounds. You should try to avoid her as much as possible and also don't speak to her more than necessary.