Do you believe vitamins work

Yet there was a flurry of excitement on the UV front last week in N Wales. In fact I found myself on a deserted beach in the sunshine and for the first time in many years sunbathed topless. We were there for about an hour and a half and nobody walked past. A raven lurked a few 100 metres away on the sand for no apparent reason for the whole time. All became clear when we got dressed and started walking. Raven swoops in and lands on "our" bit of sand to check for any discarded food. Patient bird but unlucky on that occasion.

Jess I shall stop wearing clothes forthwith. It might improve my poor vitamin D status which my GP seems to think might be the cause of my current aches and pains.

My choice is a lack of Vitamin D or Hypothermia.

Seriously! Do get your cod liver oil and sunshine. I was very Vit D deficient last year and I am waiting to find out if I am again.

It doesn't help that I am a vegetarian.

Probably placebo effect! I've seen better results with WD40 spray in patients!

Same with me, jingle. Also nine years of Diclofenac, before I discovered the risks which I decided outweighed the benefits, a year on Naproxen which is not quite as dangerous, then I started walking and it appears to have done the trick.

I took glucosamine with chondroitin for years saw sense eventually and stopped. It did nothing.

Sorry
summaries.cochrane.org/CD002946/glucosamine-for-osteoarthritis

The best kind of overview is a systematic review, as single studies are not a reliable guide. There might be another study that contradicts the findings. A systematic review looks at all the good quality evidence and is independent. Cochrane website is the place to go for these.
Here is a review of glucosamine for osteoarthritis. Conclusion is that it may have an effect - but it is not a big one, handful of points on a scale of 1-100 is not very impressive.
http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD002946/glucosamine-for-osteoarthritis

Whereas this study conducted by reputable universities found a statistically significant correlation when glucosamine and chondroitin sulphate were taken together for moderate to severe knee pain.
study

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewmcfbrown/100053833/glucosamine-supplements-for-arthritis-do-not-work-new-study-shows/

I googled 'Does glucosamine help' and found that there are no reliable studies to prove that it does - most of the positive studies were funded by the manufacturers.

Does anyone have any thoughts on glucosamine? I was advised my a chiropractor to take it every day, but perhaps that's unnecessary too

Lack of vitamin B12 can have serious effects. While you may get more than enough in your diet, malabsorption for a variety of reasons ( decreasing stomach acid, medication, gut bacteria, antibiotics, infection, etc) is quite common in the 'elderly'. The effects of low levels of B12 are not always obvious but over time can be serios and may become irreversible. B12 deficiency has been estimated to affect about 40% of people over 60 years of age. It’s entirely possible that at least some of the symptoms we attribute to “normal” aging – such as memory loss, cognitive decline, confusion, decreased mobility, etc. – are at least in part caused by B12 deficiency.
So while I generally agree that you can and should get all the vitamins and minerals you need from your diet, there are times when supplements are indicated, especially as you age. Whether you should self-prescribe is another question, but I can understand how some prefer to pop a pill rather than go through the rigmarole of the GP system.

That all sounds sensible, Bags and Jess. I take cod liver oil capsules in winter too. We do have oily fish, but too much sets off gout in OH. My cholesterol was up a bit recently and since I love milk and use butter (not a lot) rather than any kind of substitute, the doctor suggested I gave up cheese and that has brought it down again. We have masses of different fruit and vegetables because we grow a huge amount and I do find that at certain times of the year I crave certain things like dark green leaves (usually spinach or cavolo nero), or citrus fruits or red fruits. I presume this is my body telling me what it needs to maintain a balance.

I agree bags - well put.
Even if you were eating just doughnuts and chips, vitamin tablets are not necessarily a good idea. The Guardian article is very good.
The only exception might be vitamin D due to where we live on the planet, its climate and our habit of wearing clothes. Also older skin makes vitamin D (should it ever see the sun) more slowly than younger skin (and darker skin slower than lighter). It is very hard to eat enough oily fish, butter etc to get a good supply of Vitamin D via diet. There are a couple of threads on Vitamin D I think, in the health section. There is a lot of interesting research going on into it at the moment. I take cod liver oil capsules unless the weather is glorious...

The question is, are you eating enough? Just because you may not eat as much as you used to, or as much as other people, doesn't mean you aren't eating enough. If you can't get the nutrients you need from eating the right amount of food, but you are maintaining a reasonable body weight, then what you are eating is the wrong stuff, not the wrong amount. The only reasons for needing vitamin supplements are illness (poor absorption caused by some medical ailment or aberration) or not eating the right stuff.

I still contend that the amount is irrelevant if it is correct for you. It's the content that counts, not just calories. If, for instance, you felt you weren't getting enough vitamins, you could stop eating pasta and rice and bread, which are not vitamin-high foods, and fill that space with vegetables or fruit or nutrient-rich foods like meat and fish. The calorific 'quantity' you eat would not change.

Besides which, you don't need a 'lot' of micro-nutrients. The recommended daily intakes for adults are averages. This means most people won't eat (nor do they need) exactly those amounts.

And besides again, you don't have to take in every kind of nutrient every day, or even every week. A sensible, varied diet is adequate. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be here. Vitamin pills did not feature in our biological evolution.

To get all the micro nutrients you need, you need to eat enough of all the foodstuffs necessary for a balanced diet. If you eating only half the amount you ate in the past and have equally halved the portion size of everything you eat it is quite possible that you are not eating enough, even of the most nutritious foods to consume the recommended minimum requirements for vitamins and minerals.

I wouldn't presume to say I know more about this than you Bags but it seems sensible advice to me .
Another myth that is prevalent is that eating porridge will kower your cholesterol - it will, but only if you eat several bowls of it every day.
I heard a doctor on the radio yesterday saying that the pattern of disease had changed radically over the last century - that we no longer need fear micro-organisms so much as all the conditions that are caused by lack of control over our lives - failure to control our alcohol intake, diet, stress and so on.
I'm paraphrasing what he said before anyone jumps down my throat!

Beta carotene from vegetables such as carrots, is not vitamin A, though it can be made into vitamin A with the right fat enzymes and bile salts. This looks like a good description.

I'd be interested to know what people who know more about such things think of that page.

Yes, nelliem, you will lose out on the animal fat vitamins (such as D and A) if you are a veggie.

I don't see why your diet should be short of the necessary vitamins if it is as you describe, flickety. Sweet stuff doesn't contain much in the way of essential nutrients. Fats do, of course. Maybe you're losing out on the fat-soluble vitamins if your diet is very low fat. I only eat small quantities too. That doesn't mean I need supplements. It's the proportions that count. If your diet is healthy and the right amount for you, then it's healthy. If you can't get all the nutrients you need from your diet in this country, with all the massive choice we have, then it's not a healthy diet. I am, of course, as before, excluding medical conditions that prevent absorption of any particular, or several, nutrients.

But Bags not all of us have, or have ever had a diet full of sugary stuff and high carbs. I have never had a sweet tooth so all the sweets, biscuits, cakes, puddings, chocolates, white bread etc etc that we are all told we eat all the time don't figure in my diet and never have because I do not like them, come to that I don't really like fatty foods either. I just eat smaller portions of everything all round and that means I am likely to be not eating the full range of micro nutrients that are required for a healthy diet, especially as one gets older. I do not take mega doses of any vitamin or mineral, just low top up doses.

I had a big vitamin D deficiency diagnosed last year, UK weather UK latitude and being a veggie probably.
I also had a hyper parathyroid problem which has caused a borderline degree of osteoporosis. So I am taking calcium and Vitamin D. When I remember. Otherwise I don't think high doses of any vitamins for the sake of it can possibly be helpful.

I think jess has answered the OP entirely to my satisfaction. A tin of sardines and a portion of salmon or trout a week should give you all the fish oil you need and tastes a darned sight nicer than codliver oil!
Obviously, if for any reason you are found to be deficient in an essential vitamin which you cannot get through your diet, your doctor will prescribe what you need, but I would be very wary of popping lots of different over-the-counter pills.
I would be less concerned if the manufacturers were not making such huge profits, and if every supplement were subjected to the same standards as food and drink.

I most certainly do , Cod liver oil is great for joints , IMO

That makes sense, jane, under medical conditions that I mentioned earlier. It isn't an argument for taking vitamin supplements without a medical recommendation though. In some cases, the poor absorption may be due to a lack of some mineral and could be improved by a slight change in dietary habits.

Devil's advocate? Who, me?