Women only activities/events

The problem with men only groups was that they were the centre of power, especially the mens clubs in London whose members were MPs, industrialists etc. Like men's locker talk and so on.

I can see why one way women could make progress to euality was by not allowing to have those retreats where business could be discussed but women could be exclude.

I think the difference is really a uestion of function. A men's choir, a women's choir. Even the Rugby club dinner! - but then rugby clubs now have women's teams - of which I am deeply envious. I would have loved to haveplayed rugby, when I was a child. Football held no appeal, but rugby, but then it was a men ony game.

I think there is something deep in most people's psyche that means that at times they wish to meet in single sex groups. It is how this can be done without it also being exclusionary from a wider group. For example in the past, rugby was a male only game, women were not allowed to play the game and because all rugby pitches were in male hands, it was impossible for women to play the game because they had no access to a rugby pitch.

For years, my husband has enjoyed attending his rugby club's Gentlemen's Dinner, it meant dressing in a dinner suit, sitting down to a three course meal, lots of alcohol would be consumed, then being entertained by a speaker (usually ex-professional player) and a comedian who played to his audience and told blue jokes and swore a lot. It was a chance for the men to relax, have a laugh and network. It would be the last place I would want to be. Now, ladies have started attending, wives and girlfriends of players and sponsors. Why on earth they would want to spend an evening in such an environment is beyond me and hubby says it's completely changed the dynamic. Why shouldn't men be left to enjoy such an event without women present? Likewise why shouldn't women be left to enjoy social events without men present? There's a time and a place for mixed socialising, but I enjoy my women only get-togethers and men deserve the same.

Great response charley68 we need single sex spaces.

I went to my women's only weights class this morning, it's run by a man but it's aimed at getting more mature women maintaining or building muscle. We are supportive of each other, not at all competitive as we want everyone to enjoy the session but we do encourage each other. At 77, I am much older than the others, it really doesn't matter but I think it would be a very difference experience if it was a mixed group. I think there are reasons for having women only groups that are not about excluding men but more about encouraging women to take part.

David49

Allira

There are still Only Men clubs etc.
Probus, Men's Sheds, etc.

If you Google you might find some in your area if you're brave enough to gatecrash.

Probus is open to all, if women want to participate in men's sheds Im sure they could, I cant think of any other organization that is single sex today. Freemasonry has women lodges and they can participate in activities as visitors but obviously cannot join a male lodge, and vice versa.

Yes, I do know that as there was one Gransnetter who used to post but no longer (much missed) and she belonged to a Probus Group, but, I think, that was women only!

I did ask DH if I could go to one of the meetings as the speaker sounded really interesting.
Shock! Horror! No!

The whole point is the issue of single sex for male and female.
Single sex toilets, changing facilities, prisons, sports, intimate care, and other aspects where single sex is a given, and the law, should never have included males.
If an organisation states it is a 'Girls club' eg Girl Guides - this is for girls and young women only, not boys; 'Women's Institute' is for women only - if one male is included it is immediately a mixed sex institute.
I think the 'Scouts' is no longer just for boys - as in 'Boy Scouts'? I am not sure, but the name Scouts does not mean single sex.

Male voice choirs should be men only. and Mens Shed should be a resource for men; if women want a women's shed, they should lobby for one.

Trans people belong to the sex they were at birth.
There is no such thing as a 'transgender woman' - they are men, and 'transgender men' are women. There is no such thing as 'non binary', we are all either male or female, there is no third sex.
Intersex is rare, and a person who is incongruous, will on chromosome and DSD testing for the SRY gene, is either male or female. This will become obvious at puberty as the changes to the body will be evident.
This IOC rule today makes this ruling long overdue.

AmberGran

^Any evidence that they aren't? Lots of men only organisations have been named on here.^

Well... as mentioned.. male voice choirs??

Ours had a female conductor for a long while!

There are very few men only clubs. Even the local church's Men's breakfast allow women as well. A lot of the Men's sheds have now become community sheds and allow women. Working men's clubs have all but disappeared or allow women in as well. Men have learnt to be far more accepting of women than back in the 1950's. Women have become less accepting of men. Really you should never exclude one gender unless it is absolutely essential. If a man is pleasant to talk to and can knit there is no reason he should be barred from a knit and natter group for example.

I kind of get what the OP is saying.

I have no issue with single sex activities or events or clubs, so long as the purpose of such clubs isn’t solely existing to exclude the opposite sex from work or other important decision making activities or to use such groups to the detriment of the opposite sex.

Stag and hen parties are prime examples of social occasions designed to be single sex, though I know they sometimes are not.

AmberGran

^Any evidence that they aren't? Lots of men only organisations have been named on here.^

Well... as mentioned.. male voice choirs??

You've lost me. Male voice choirs are for male voices, so of course are men only. There are plenty of women's choirs, too, so nobody is being excluded, and it doesn't matter in the way that having men winning prizes in women's sport directly affects the careers of sportswomen.

If a woman wants to join a male voice choir, my guess is that she is being vexatious, and would be unlikely to have a leg to stand on if she were refused.

Any evidence that they aren't? Lots of men only organisations have been named on here.

Well... as mentioned.. male voice choirs??

I have no problem with women wanting their own space without men, so I don't know why men shouldn't be allowed the same.

Any evidence that they aren't? Lots of men only organisations have been named on here.

I've often had the same thought hamster53. In particular the idea of women wanting to join male voice choirs. There are plenty of choirs where men and women sing, and some women's choirs so I don't know why a male voice choir shouldn't be allowed.

I have no problem with women wanting their own space without men, so I don't know why men shouldn't be allowed the same.

Allira is correct and you are wrong, David.

Probus is not open to all; many Probus groups are men only. Most Mens Sheds are men only. Freemasons lodges are still men only. Round Table is for men. There are still private mens clubs, and charitable mens support groups groups for men only.

Allira

There are still Only Men clubs etc.
Probus, Men's Sheds, etc.

If you Google you might find some in your area if you're brave enough to gatecrash.

Probus is open to all, if women want to participate in men's sheds Im sure they could, I cant think of any other organization that is single sex today. Freemasonry has women lodges and they can participate in activities as visitors but obviously cannot join a male lodge, and vice versa.

I agree with Wyllow and Rosie. Business meetings on men-only golf courses, or 'gentleman's clubs were a way to exclude women, and allow men to make contacts that women couldn't. Very different from a changing room, a Girl Guide camp or a village WI. Or a lesbian speed dating event.

It's only relatively recently that men have wanted to gatecrash such things, claiming that they are women because they think they feel like we do.

I see Wyllow3 has alluded to the point in my first paragraph, I'm a slow typist, your post wasn't showing when I started

hamster58 I think you'll find a lot of the past opposition to some men only clubs was that those in positions of influence and power used these clubs not only as social places but places where decisions that affected women too were discussed and agreed upon, without any input from women who were excluded from joining. The 'old boys' network was very much alive with far reaching consequences for those not admitted, and therefore ignored or discounted.
Does anybody these days object to a 'working mens club' where they socialise in a male dominated or even exclusive environment? Or to any other 'non influential' men only clubs or societies? Women need some women only places and groups for reasons of dignity, safety or even religious obligation as well as just choice. These women often encounter opposition from transwomen and their supporters, to the point that some biological women only groups find they are unable to rent spaces to meet.

correct " just wanting or needing to be with men or women."

There's always a place for women or men to want to get together and share with just single sex 🙂

What was wrong before was that it was about gaining access for women to places of power and exclusivity run by men for men for politics, business, or prestige. That hasn't entirely gone of course but we can now see good reasons for justice t wanting or needing to be with men or women.

As regards my womens changing rooms at the gym, the howls of laughter and friendly/sometimes supportive women stuff, I wouldnt miss it for the world.

It is my lifelong experience that most women talk to other women in a different way if men aren't there and I value that.

Surely, if single sex support groups help those with mental health, loneliness, isolation etc then it’s got to be a good move? I’m all for equality but I do sometimes feel that things are taken a bit too far in terms of inclusivity.

I think men are entitled to things of their own, and they currently exist, we run fathers group, there are groups specifically for men with mental health issues etc.

Hi again all. Just to clarify, I wasn’t saying male or female events are wrong, just that having fought to be included in male things, it seems wrong to now create exclusively female events 🤷‍♀️

I feel it is appropriate to have women only/men only groups. There are many clubs and societies nearby where both men and women can go, I don't know why it should be an issue.
As I am a member of the WI we are, as the name suggests, a women's only organisation. Recent rulings by the Supreme Court mean that transgender members can no longer attend WI meetings and events after 31st March this year when the current membership expires. Those members will not be able to pay their subs for the coming year. A neighbour enjoys his time at his Men in Sheds group. Male only and meant for men who are lonely, recently bereaved/separated or suffering from mental health issues. Maybe men can open up about their personal problems in the company of men only. I don't see anything wrong in that.

There are still Only Men clubs etc.
Probus, Men's Sheds, etc.

If you Google you might find some in your area if you're brave enough to gatecrash.