To expect wet behind the ears Doctors today

After my daughter was in hospital with acute myeloid leukaemia in August, I vowed I'd never go to hospital in Feb & Aug (I didn't realise it's April as well). She had a brilliant Junior & then he was replaced by a new one who always looked terrified & went down his checklist in a manner that felt like interrogation. It really upset her & when things went wrong he diagnosed a pulmonary embolism, which was very unlikely & wasn't. He was incapable of using a cardiac monitor & she ended up really distressed. I do wonder how much training they are given in basics like taking blood & using equipment. I do feel for them having to get to know their way round hospital, procedures etc. never mind deal with life & death decisions. August of course is when many Consultants are on holiday as my daughter's were. She died a week or so later & we often wonder if the change-over, though not a direct cause, had an impact as it increased her stress incredibly. I've only recently had experience of hospitals as a patient myself & every time found myself there in August. I try to be compassionate with the new ones & tried to encourage them e.g. when struggling to take one's blood - in a corridor too. I also found myself being visited by a whole lot of them when I told one I didn't mind them looking into my eye to see a dormant toxoplasmosis. A new Doc had seen me in A&E & I made sure I checked that all the appointments he said he'd made for me had gone through the system & I also got another opinion.
I get frustrated that the same problems seem to come up over & over again without the system being examined (do put me right if you know otherwise) so I can understand why Nurses like Ashmore get drained by it all.

Actually,regardless of my moaning, I LOVE my 'JOB' and am currently on a ward that is probably the BEST I have ever in all my years worked on. My senior Sister is supportive in view of my past 18/12 torment at the hands of my trusts arrogant and inept employees and granddaughters treatment as a whole, I hope I can somehow continue to my retirement birthday. I will be sad to leave but after what I have been through I will always look back with anger.

I could add the treatment of my mother was far from average on the ward I used to be the senior sister on 10 years ago.The junior doctors looking after her were inept and pain control was 'dictated' by protocols rather than individualised. The HO dictating she was on 'plenty' while ignoring her pre accident level of analgesics. Physio's so interested in her hip they ignored her collapsing knee and ankle problems and who with the doctors and nurses hell bent on following the fractured neck of femur Integrated pathway. How different it was on my neighbouring ward, who had a different philosophy of care.

I don't know a nurse from my generation who is not looking at the retirement clock for one reason or another. The day I start to HATE my JOB, will be the day find something else to do. The doctors come and go. while I have the nursing staff as a constant I can be grateful for what time I have left with my patients, the people I go to work for. the pay cheque helps, but if I wanted a well paid job mon to fri with few responsibilities I would have jumped ship years ago.

The NHS is not perfect and never really has been. The changes happened around 1988 when Nursing schools were being replaced by the universities. I have a lot of respect for my degree qualified staff nurses, they manage wards very well, yet are rarely seen at the bedside. Something I continue to manage when I am in charge. on weekends I take my turn doing what I see as proper nursing. Back to basics and it is this I miss.
The wards are being poached for staff to take on mini doctor roles. Bleeding wards of experienced nurses. we have over 30 specialist and consultant nurse posts.

While I appreciate all the hard work and dedication to studies the Doctors and new nurses put in, putting theory into practice is not what it used to be and Newly qualified staff come out often with a good knowledge but little sense to be able to put it into practice. in effect many , by no means all newly fledged Doctors and Nurses, not happy to crawl they want to run from the get go. Doctors and Nurses who 'trained in the dark ages' as it was put to me less than a week ago, we came out of training schools toddling nearly ready to walk. we were not frightened of a helping hand, we trusted them to help us and be there if we fell. That is where a lot of the problems lie.

The Doctors who are not frightened of us will ask for help, those with a God complex will not. a lot of the ward work is left to senior nurses as the new doctors foundation training structure seems devoid of the structure of their early years. Ward rounds in the old sense a thing of the past. Often having to be self reliant. You can bet your bottom dollar, if a very junior Doctor makes a mistake because the senior nurse didn't challenge him, and with Demigods this is so difficult, because they throw their weight around, the nurse would be held partly responsible. While the GMC may sanction the Doctor, the NMC would crucify the nurse. I too have a steely stare and a whip lash tongue. I hate to resort to telling tales, but it sometimes is the only way. I have also been there for them when they have made a mistake and live with self doubt, often not warranted.

I am off now until Monday, time for them to settle in......If I had to choose my training hospital, the 3 hospitals I have worked in between that one and my current one for best standards I couldn't pick. All have their good points and all their bad. I have patients who do not trust our sister hospital as people will not trust ours but that happens elsewhere too. . There are very few people in the NHS who don't care about their patients or their job because they couldn't stay.
The current philosophy of Health care has to be where you look for fault. the purse holders and factory minded managers who only see a 'bottom line'. I don't know anyone who works at the 'coal face' who worries about a 'bottom line'. Health provision is not a bottomless pit however a few less pennies spent on decorating management offices and travelling allowances for board members....etc etc.

i made the mistake of judging globally all wet behind the ears doctors rather than the few individuals it was targeted at. I am sure there are examples everywhere....

off to work on our new Nil by Mouth draft policy

I think until she retires Ashmore needs to keep her identity close to her chest, otherwise it'll be difficult for her to come on he to have a much needed moan. Having just escaped from the NHS she has my total sympathy .

New gps frequently pick up things like under active thyroids as the symptoms come on so slowly that neither patient or Dr are aware.

Sorry I mean Ana

@Aka
@Ashmore do please tell us a bit more about yourself so we can suss out the hospital for ourselves. You sound thoroughly miserable in your job.

Surely you wouldn't 'throw away your pension' by retiring earlier. Admittedly, I lost a chunk of mine and was quite stretched until DWP pension kicked in at 60. However for my own sake and that of the pupils I believe it was a sacrifice worth making. I know things have changed in the last few years and you might have a longer wait for state pension but you sound so unhappy, couldn't you look at the sums again?

The young registrar who kept telling me that the pain in my foot was "just where the plaster had been" in spite of my insisting that I could not weight-bear made me so mad. There was another unhealed fracture that he missed - all he had to do was LISTEN!

It's the wet behind the ears doctors who have a God complex I have the trouble with. Running before they can walk and won't listen to an experienced voice. Of the 12 on our last rotation we had more 'Demi-gods' than we have had for a while. The ones who were hard working taking up their slack. It's when I have to go above their heads to keep a patient safe it becomes a problem. It normally happens so infrequently, however in the last 3 months the same doctors names have come up in our 3 department unit, so it is not just me. The Unit Director has had words but seems they fell on deaf ears. As witnessed in the run up to Wednesday. Let's hope it was all because they just don't like orthopaedics! We can just do without Drs like them if this is going to be their normal behaviour. As for retiring, if it was not going to throw my retirement pension away I would retire tomorrow. Sad thing is out of over 100 staff I a the only nurse with an official Orthopaedic qualification earned from a Specialist Orthopaedic Hospital, of which there are very few left. Any time something out of the ordinary comes in they normally come to me.....
I have known 6 out of our 15 Consultants as House officers and SHO's over my 37 years. We have 2 Prima donnas, 3 fantastic all rounders and a lazy git. My opinion of them as HO's and SHO's was spot on.

It was a new GP - a young woman - who diagnosed my symptoms that her older colleagues appeared to have been struggling with with the results that I'm now so very much better! The problem is she's gone off on maternity leave!!!!!

Doctors attitude is very important. Inexperience is probably less worrying if a new Doctor does not assume they " they know it all", and when in doubt is prepared to ask advice from a more experienced colleague.

The surgery I go to has 5 GPs, all have been there a long time.
The longest serving woman, my named GP, is burnt out and useless.
I will only see her only if I know exactly what I want or need. I would not trust her with anything complicated.

There is another Female GP I have only seen about once.

One really useless male and two good male GPS. The one I go to is a 50 something Egyptian GP. (aka "ET"" from his surname). DR El T***

He is very thorough and keeps working through all possibilities to get a problem solved. He is also very kind and goes out of his way to assist when he can.

I dragged OH off to see "ET" when OH's useless male GP failed to get anything sorted over several months.

"ET" did not stop trying to find out the problem and eventually made a referral for a brain scan and discovered a benign brain tumour that had not given OH any obvious signs (apart from sleeping all the time.)

We really do need two newer and more enthusiastic GPs.

I always thought it was August when the Registrars/housemen etc started their new contracts. Obviously not.
I am sorry but remarks like "wet behind the ears" doctors are totally unfair to the talented young men and women who have worked so hard and had to show such determination to get to where they are today. Once we start seriously expressing sentiments like that I think it is a sign that one is ready to bow out and leave the field for the up and coming new talent. They are not "wet behind the ears" - in many cases they will be the surgeons, specialists and consultants of the very near future and deserve some respect as well as any guidance you may feel qualified and able to offer.
Anyone feeling so jaundiced about the current situation, I wonder if you should not be making more immediate plans for retirement yourself.

GP's [I think] work at out of hours places and make extra money for doing so. They started doing it when they were no longer made to do night calls.

Charleygirl, my BF used to advise never going into hospital at the beginning of August if you could help it for that reason!

"I always like a new wet behind the ears GP. You can fix them with a steely glare and get what you want"

Not all of us can, Stansgran! You must be terrifying...

I haven't had cause to use the out-of-hours service here, but a consortium of local GPs put in - and won - a bid for the contract. This means that we aren't at risk of imported doctors from goodness knows where, who can't understand English!

Since DH has been ill we have several times had dealings with the out of hours doctors. In our area they all seem to be relatively old - presumably retired GPs making a bit of extra money. They have all been willing to spend as long as we needed talking and all had endless experience to draw on when deciding what to do about him. At 2 am it's very reassuring to have someone say "I've seen many cases like this, what you need to do is ....."

I always like a new wet behind the ears GP. You can fix them with a steely glare and get what you want

I went to A&E with a gallbladder infection at the August weekend when all new doctors arrive! It was fine but very obvious that the experience of routines, resources etc. was with the nurses... but everyone was polite and caring..if a bit lost!

Oh yes - avoid being in hospital at these changeover times. Some of them can't even take blood! And housemen/women have always relied on experienced ward sisters to get them through. They are the backbone of the NHS.

My DD2 is a new GP and I think she is fantastic.I make a point now of asking by name for the 'new' doctor at my surgery as I have much more faith in him than the tired, cynical has-been coming up for retirement!

The majority of doctors I have met in GP practices and in hospitals have been ace! Occasionally there has been a harassed /overworked person who has been a bit 'short on bedside manner' , once there was a doctor who was just rude! Just like wider society really!

The time to avoid is August when the recent medical students become newly qualified doctors. It takes them a good few weeks or even months to get into the swing of things but with a good ward sister holding their hand they should muddle their way through it provided they do not become too cocky and arrogant. It is easier now because they do not work so long hours.

Ashmore; once the end is in sight you start to realise how many parts of the job are annoying [I'm afraid that when you actually retire you'll [if you're like me] find yourself fuming about things that you take on an chin now as a matter of course]. I always found it was the lady doctors that went over and beyond the call of duty; maybe it's their [sorry to do a sexual typecast thing] nurturing side coming out. I would have lay down and died for some of the doctors I worked for; others I totaly despised .

Oh dear! My son's girlfriend (a wet behind the ears doctor) has just finished a rotation in GP practice and is looking forward now to the next few months of general medicine in the local university teaching hospital. Do hope she keeps her ears open for words of wisdom wherever they come from.
Can sympathise with the hard couple of years until retirement. As a teachet , I knew it was time to go when I had to admit I was putting a lot more into the job than I was getting out of it. For the sake of the children as well as myself, I retired 18 months early and, looking back am glad I did.