Zimmerman found not guilty

Even our new self defence law states "reasonable force". The boy wasn't armed.

So long as Zimmerman stopped Matin from getting his gun, he should have been able to restrain him without shooting.

I'm thinking "aloud" here.

I find myself comparing this to the murder of Stephen Lawrence. Those racist thugs were definitely out to kill. Was Zimmerman?

There must be a lesser offence they could have charged him with. Manslaughter? Would he have got off scot free in this country? I don't think he would have.

Although what Treyvon was carrying is not relevant to the acquittal I think it's a relevant pointer to Zimmerman's attitude.

Treyvon had every right not to be under suspicion when he had just popped-out to buy sweets and a drink, was not carrying say, a holdall, and was simply on his way home - there's no suggestion that he was walking around aimlessly or idling.

I think if I was faced with a guy with a gun, I might have tried to disarm him. On 'stand my ground and self-defence'.

Yes, I do see that. But maybe the jury believed that Zimmerman thought Martin was going for his (Zimmerman's) gun at the time of the shooting and that the reason for Z chasing M was not the relevant thing even though it is obvious to us now that he was not out to commit a crime.

This is too hard! I'm giving up.

It is relevant - he was not armed and had gone out to buy a bag of Skittle and can of pop. It gives very relevant context imho.

I think the bag of Skittles and can of pop thing is being a bit overplayed. Not relevant.

Err no Granjura!!! Not at all ignorant of US history!

Yep- not a term of endearment is it?

Sorry J08, I didn't meant to imply you are racist, but maybe ignorant of US history.

I am white, middle-class, and have never ever been at the wrong hand of racim. I hate the overplay of the racist card actually. If Martin had managed, in absolute self-defence, as he was pursued and apprehended for no reason, by a big guy who reached for a concealed item, which was clearly a gun, to reach for said gun and shot Zimmerman, he would be on death row by now. The 'stand my ground' and self-defence plea would have been very unlikely to stand. And we all know why.

The police 'we don't need you to do that' on the tape clearly means 'don't' - but he ignored it, because he couldn't bear to think that a 'f***ing co*on' could 'get away'. Get away from getting home with his bad of skittles and can of pop, with his hoodie to protect him from the heavy rain.

Nice one whenim - and quite right too.

Point taken, jings. I had read something about other parts of the call that were edited (spliced together) so that things were out of context, e.g. Z's comment, when asked, that the youth was black. There is nothing ambiguous about "fucking coons."

Thanks for that link, Jingle. It certainly sounds like he did say it under his breath. I would expect the jury heard that, too, and receive direction from the judge as to whether his racist comment was relevant to the killing. Sadly, it's not the first time I have heard defending barristers deal with what appears to be cut and dried proof. 'Your honour, jury, he might be a racist bastard, but is he a murdering racist bastard?' (My words, but you know what I mean)

I don't think you can edit something into a tape. It's clearly his voice.

On the tape you can hear him calling black people "fucking coons". That can't be anything but racist.

I haven't followed the ins and outs of this case. I agree he was acquitted according to US laws.

BTW, I don't know if he is a racist. He could be. The point of the acquittal is that evidence was not good enough to convict him.

Is that the 911 tape that was selectively edited to make Zimmerman appear to be making racist comments? If so, isn't that one of the reasons he was acquitted?

I said it shouldn't make any difference Granjura. And what was the "or much worse" supposed to mean? I hope you were not suggesting that I am racist!

You need to read posts more carefully.

Ok! Zimmerman was racist. listen at 1.49

This makes it all different.

To whom is your last post addressed, jura?

My OH's family lived through the worst of Apartheid, split into 3 different ethnic groups due to their genetic heritage and depending on what shade of colour the children turned out to be. Mainly coloreds, Cape Malays, a few blacks and a couple of 'whites', including his father - before they immigrated to the UK (a grand-father was British. Would you say that criminal justice in South Africa in those days didn't align itself to colour and race? Struuuf.


"We in the UK have worked our way through blaming, physically attacking and denigrating, in turn Jews coming to OUR country to escape programs in their own country, the Irish for coming here to escape the potato famine, The black Caribbeans transported this to this country on the ex troopship HMS Windrush to take up jobs UK citizens preferred not to do"

I think that instead of "We" at the beginning of this statement, "Some people in the UK" would have been more accurate. I think it's important not to blame innocent people for things they haven't done. I do not personally know anyone who has done any of those things.

j08, you comment that in a Southern State of America, it does not make any difference as to where someone is black or white is either hugely naive or much worse. Really.

Remember the poem:

First they came for the Communists...

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

So many echoes of the Stephen Lawence case twenty years ago; a young unarmed black man killed, police officers reluctant to act, alleged offenders acquitted. But it didn't end there and perhaps this case too will shine a light into racists, racism and 'institutional' racism.

I think this blog about racism in the US will be right up your street, Moggsy.

As an aside, I'd find your posts much easier to follow if you would emulate this writer's style a bit. Clarity goes a long way.