To just want to sob?

petallus, essentially, yes. Most racism is deliberate. Sometimes it is unconscious. Either way feeling offended/outraged doesn't change anything. Discussing what things are regarded as racist and why does change things, given time. Attitudes are changing because of education rather than because people take or don't take offence. Even with racist remarks, what one person finds offensive won't always be the same as what another finds offensive.

For example, in Oxford I had two friends from Uganda. One was a Ugandan Asian whose family had been ejected by Idi Amin. The other was a black (very black, the blackest person I ever known, gorgeous skin colour) Ugandan – I can't remember from what tribe. Anyway, the Asian Ugandan thought Brits were very racist and found racism in virtually everything. The African Ugandan said he'd never experienced any racism in Britain. And yet they mixed with the same sort of people. Knowing them both as I did (they knew each other too), it seemed to me that the Asian Ugandan made the choice to be offended by so much and the African Ugandan let things pass. He was the happier person even though his life had been tougher by several orders of magnitude than the other's. In short, the Asian had a chip (or several) on her shoulder and he didn't.

Getting? What do you mean, Getting? I'll have you know I AM good at Googling! I can remember back a couple of years. JO, to when you were just a newby and were thrilled at the thought of all the information available on Google! Now you have almost caught up with me.

elegran

Tea break!!!!!

Not so much of the "when you were just a newbie"! I joined GN on the day it was born! Take NO notice of my several times reconstituted profile!

break here.

Off to read Game of Thrones in son's garden.

I don't think anybody needed to google to find Godwin's Law, as a certain poster has had to be reminded of it on several previous occasions.

I agree with what you say Bags, up to a point. The law backs the right of people to be offended though.

I recently spent the weekend with a (very) black woman from Rhodesia. Her family are 'upper class' and able to employ servants (this woman had a nanny for each of her children) and although she has been in this country for 8 years or so now, she does seem very confident and assertive (a little abrupt even) with waiters and other staff in such places as restaurants and hotels.

But she was telling me about an experience she had as a child in Rhodesia when she went into a whites only toilet. Two white woman told her she should not be there and she felt very humiliated but rebellious, pretending she could not understand what they were saying. Quite an incident developed and it nearly became a police matter.

She says this incident affected her for the rest of her life.

Incidentally I think your black friend who did not see any racism in Britain (especially in those days) was wearing rose coloured spectacles.

Well if that was me Greatnan, 'fraid it rolled right off. Never 'eard of it. Not that I can remember anyway. #godisgood

It is true that the Royals cannot control what the tabloids say about them - but they do actively manage their PR and choose who is going to be high profile and who not. Otherwise they would have had a quiet little private family wedding wouldn't they. And this thread began with a link that shows they are not above flogging royal baby souvenirs.
No reason why children should be offended by being referred to as pups. Pups are gorgeous. "whelps" - bit olde englishe and they probably would not understand. But wouldn't it be a pity if such words as whelping disappeared from our vocabulary? Got to work them in to keep them alive I reckon

Apparently godwins law goes like this:

"Dude, shut up. Nobody cares what you think."

"Oh, so now you're trying to censor me? Go to hell, you damn Nazi!"

And it originated on an early forum called Usenet.

Were you on that one Greatnan?

I feel really sorry for Kate - there must be so much pressure on her and she seems like such a lovely girl. I wouldn't swap places with her...

Why on earth feel sorry for a healthy young womanhappily married to a lovely husband, expecting her first baby and without a financial care in the world? Not begrudging her one iota of it, be glad for her.

petallus, the 'those days' you were referring to were the 1990s. Not so very far past. My black friend was doing a D.Phil at Oxford after having been a refugee from Uganda since being a very young man. He was a refugee in Nigeria for many years before coming to the UK. I don't think you need rose-tinted spectacles not to encounter racism in Oxford. Not in the university environment anyhow.

He went back to Africa (South Africa though, not Uganda as that would have been too risky) to work for Save the Children. Maybe the fact that he was made an outlaw in his own country by other blacks, made him realise that a bit of mild racism in the UK was peanuts by comparison.

And maybe, just maybe, he never did encounter any racism in the UK. The idea is not completely outrageous you know.

A so-called "chip of the shoulder" could just as easily be described as assertiveness.

Some people are less assertive than others because of their particular background, and Asians tend to have been treated more favourably by their colonial masters than Africans. Some black slaves internalised the values of their white masters, in the same way that at the time of the suffragette movement a significant number of women internalised the values of the existing male-dominated culture and did not support equality for women.

Unless a person is black, how can she make a judgment about the existence or significance of racism?

Eloethan Your final sentence is surely racist itself. Black people are not the only people who have suffered from racism.

My Asian friend called herself black, though she was only a slightly darker shade of yellow than me. She was very assertive too. Probably still is.

So from her I gathered that black doesn't mean black as such, it just means not 'white'. I'm all for as much mixing of gene pools as possible and then we can all just be vaguely yellowish or muddy.

absent I was speaking in the context of the reported comments made by an Asian Ugandan and an African Ugandan regarding their experience of racism in the UK.

Of course, white people can be the subject of racism in the UK also, e.g. Jewish people, Irish people and, more commonly these days, Eastern European people. Black people, however, are generally more at risk of casual racism because they can be immediately visually identified.

Having been away , I did not know he was still in hospital, not an awfully good sign IMO, still have to be positive , no news is good news .

He's out now, Nonu but as the palace have not said what's wrong with him and he's going to be recuperating for two months we can only assume it's a lot more serious than an 'investigation'.

I think there might also be some kind of media blackout because there are none of the usual speculative articles that there were for Princess Margaret when she was ailing.

PS , do not think that using the term whelping for a woman about to give birth very attractive.

Thanks Merlot , Little bit worrying for them , mind you seeing her at Ascot she looks "In the Pink", so perhaps it is not all bad , hope so , not that I am that keen on him, but I think it will rock a few boats , if he anything happens to him.