to think the girls were inappropriately dressed?

I wrote a post yesterday but obviously did not push post message to respond to comments to my OP!

I agree wholeheartedly that boys/men should never assume that the appearance /clothing of girls/women gives them any 'rights' to behave inappropriately. I also do not like the term 'jail bait' but used it because I knew it would convey the specific image of young girls dressed in a way that suggests they are older.

I did wear mini skirts/hot pants/white lace up boots/makeup but I was older 15/16 rather than 12/13.

I suppose I was really questioning the responsibility of parents to educate their children about the impact of image etc.

The girls I saw were too young to be employed so someone paid for their clothes! They were meeting some others , who offered to pick them up by car at the station (this offer was refused..via mobile) so appeared that the adults they knew were OK with their appearance.

I am really not a prude but I worry about the message we (ie society) give to young women about appearance etc. They would have looked just as beautiful dressed less scantily.

Ooh, Maggie! Marc Bolan....

I don't think things have changed either. I was 13 or 14 myself when I got the contact lenses (they were unforgiving hard discs that hurt my eyes like crazy, but hey, the gigs were gone!), chopped a foot or so off my modest denim skirt, put on the white lipstick and the 4 coats of mascara (flour dabbed on between each one to enhance the flutter) and hit the town for the first time as a sex object. I can still remember the effect on the local men and it's a memory that'll keep me warm when I'm old(er) and cold(er). This was before tights became the norm and we wore Pretty Polly hold-ups, so I should imagine the flash of thigh as we went up the bus steps was not something my parents liked to dwell upon when they were lying awake waiting for my key in the door.

I found myself pontificating the other day about how inappropriately a local girl was dressed and then checked myself. Her shorts were no more miniscule than the purple panne velvet hotpants I wore to a local club when I was 14 and the gorgeous Marc Bolan of Tyrannosaurus Rex as was bought me a brandy and Cherry B during the break from their performance. Ah, happy hedonistic days!!

Have to agree, in the first wave of mini skirts, if I couldn't grip my hem when standing up then skirt wasn't short enough. School uniform was a bit longer - at least when I left the house - but round the corner got rolled up at the waist before I got to school. Some things never change!

Now I have ceased to be concerned about 21-yr-old GD, I'm now thinking about the almost 11-yr-old. She is developing into an adolescent quite quickly and has typical adolescent dress sense.

Normal - yes, Wise - well maybe not. I used to wear mini skirts etc. But I did not have the first vaguest clue about the way men look at women until I was a married adult. Suspect that although very young women understand a lot more about sex these days, they do not seek to be objects of lust. They want to be attractive and fashionable. They want boys to "fancy them". This probably does not include provoking erections in males of all ages.
Men shouldn't look at women as sex objects, but I suspect testosterone will out, whether the men live in a repressive society or whether they live in a highly sexualised culture, awash with soft porn images.
Girls this age are not able to understand men or to assess risk.
I think it is irresponsible parenting to let very young girls go out in such sexualised clothes.

I think a lot of girls don't realise that sexy and attractive doesn't have to mean half naked and that wearing clothes that are too skimpy and revealing suggests that you think that your body is all you have to offer. I know that in the 60's we were wearing impossibly short skirts, but we weren't combining them with G strings! In fact my friend used to wear two pairs of pants and tights under hers.

I followed a young woman yesterday who was a beautiful example. She had very good legs, nicely tanned. She was wearing denim shorts - not too tight and just long enough to cover her buttocks, but you knew there was a nicely shaped behind underneath them. The effect was nicely alluring without being unpleasantly revealing.

Elegran

Lamb dressed as mutton!

I abhor the term 'jail bait'. Anyone taking a good look at the faces of these girls would be able to tell their age, perhaps not exactly, but approximately. They look what they are, young girls trying to look older - 'twas ever thus.

The onus is on men to behave responsibly and treat these emerging adults as they would want their own daughters to be treated.

It's always been like this! What is new here?
Don't any of you remember mini skirts when they were teenagers. Lean forwards and your pants would show.

Teenagers have always done such risque dressing and always will.

As Cole Porter put it.

"In olden days a glimpse of stockings Was looked on as something shocking, Now heaven knows! Anything goes."

I am far more concerned about the sexy looking and sloganed clothing for the younger girls, say those under their teens.

I am not being pedantic here (honest! I wouldn't dare) but can I pick out the word "right" here. Going through a phase of doing certain things when changing from one status to another is a "rite of passage" or ritual, not a "right" which is an entitlement which no-one can deprive you of. I have seen it spelt that way before, and always think it is a pity to confuse the two similar-sounding words.

Alongside those who follow the most extreme fashion for wearing clothes and makeup which belong in cheap brothels, there are and always have been many young people who manage to make the transition to adulthood while still looking relatively normal. There are many who don't find drinking until they are unconscious is necessary for becoming a grownup either.

(Before anyone picks me up in turn and says that prostitution is an age-old profession practiced by independent courtesans through the ages, I did say "cheap" brothels, where girls have no choice about which clients they service and how)

Waits for flak on both PC and pedantic fronts.

I am uncomfortable about the use of words like "tarts - Jail bait" here. The implication is that by wearing short skirts/shorts/exposing mid riffs, they girls carry a lot of responsibility if they are then sexually assaulted by a man who simply can't control himself. The focus is on girls, but what about the fact that boys of their age are usually to be seen with that full nappy look, i.e. trousers where the crutch ends at knee length, and where the underpants are visible for a good few inches before the trousers start. I don't think anyone would suggest these young men are showing their underwear, wearing trousers that encourage people to look at their bottoms are "jail bait". Young people have always dressed/talked in a way which was guaranteed to wind up the older generation - it seems to have been a right of passage for as long as we have recorded history. As so many others have said, it's a phase that most of us seemed to have enjoyed.

It's not just ordinary clothes, it's school uniform as well. The girls around here wear pleated skirts which just cover their bottoms; sometimes they wear tights, but not so much this time of year - my blue rinsed Senior Mistress would have had a fit, and now I understand why!!!! [I never thought I'd ever agree with her ]

I totally agree that no means no and that's that, but in every circumstance anybody needs to have the sense not to put themselves in danger.

I used to have a one mile+ walk to the station to go to work. In the morning and in daylight when their were plenty of people about I used a whole series of narrow footpaths and alleys between houses to shorten the journey, on the way home I stuck to busy roads. I may have been able to use the back doubles at night and never have a problem but I knew that if I did used them there was a greater chance of robbery or sexual assault or worse, so I didn't take the risk.

Exactly the same applies to girls that get blind drunk or dress and behave, and I think the two go together, in a way that suggests they are open to offers, or to lads that get blind drunk and then get into fights and end on murder charges or decide it would be a good idea to walk 5 miles home in a snow storm rather than get a taxi.

I can remember coming home on the train once and 2 young ladies were wearing very short skirts and their knickers were partially on display.
They had coats with them which I think would have covered them to about knee level.
It was just before Christmas although the temperature was very high for that time of year.
As I father of 2 girls I did think about saying something but I then thought it could cause problems to myself.
They got off at a station before mine with their coats under their arms.
I just hoped they would put them on as they reached the exit of the station.

Frank

Anno

Jane, I wasn't going to say this, but I fear the longer skirts are being worn because she has put on a lot of weight on her thighs and rear end. Grannies are allowed to say this!

I think it is normal. I used to wear mini-dresses which meant as soon as I lifted my arms you could see my knickers! Next came hot-pants. At least mini-skirts and shorts don't ride up when you raise your arms.

Also they were in a group which makes them safer. The older generation has always disapproved of the younger in one way or another!

It should make no difference - but yes it does worry me. Nobody should think that a girl with little clothing on is 'asking for it' of course. But where I lived in UK, girls went out at night with practically nothing on, and then got so drunk that they didn't know their names and were falling in the gutter.

When on holiday in traditional/rural areas of Greece and Arab countries - I am amazed that young people, but also adult women- think it is acceptable to go on trips to the hinterland wearing tiny shorts and tops leaving absolutely nothing to the imagination - in small villages where women are totally covered up and wear a scarf or hijab. No wonder the men stare, and the women show their disdain for the lack of respect shown.

Discussing this with my 6th Form students who wore discreet clothing and a hijab or scarf - they actually felt very sorry for the British girls and the way they are exploited by boys and men, by the expectations of the fashion and Bling magazines industry, etc- which turned some of them into 'pieces of meat' - they were so glad to wear clothing that protected them from such expectations and abuse. We often feel Muslim women to be oppressed by having to wear such clothing - but for them, they saw it as protection that gave them dignity too- and felt it was the girls who had to wear skimpy clothing and make up to 'fit in' and also to often be sexual toys for the boys, as the ones oppressed... not them.

It is a difficult one - at that age they are irresistibly beautiful and a delight to behold, and you do not wish to begrudge them wearing skimpy gear (this is the only time they can get away with it and look good!). But how much do they realise about the effect that they have on others? - particularly men of all ages.

I guess it is down to the parents to advise without instilling fear - but they may of course have changed from the parent-approved gear in a loo somewhere for all we know!

I still remember a conversation with a mixed group of nationalities(all women) when I was complaining that my DH was lazy and would not close the garage door when he drove out. It meant that our local school girls used it to tart themselves up for the journey home. All the women joined in about how they rolled up their waistband (Japanese )undid blouse buttons while wearing their headscarves ends long(Muslim) and so on through Hindu,Indian Muslim and Chinese . Sisters under the skin...

Anno it could be a sign of maturity, but it could also be because very short skirts are now apparently rather 'last year'

It depends on what effect they created IMO. They probably had lovely slim middles, legs up to here and thick glossy hair. You say they only wore light make up so I think they probably looked abssolutely lovely! If they had been plastered in Pan-stik/fake tan, with Amy Winehouse hair, ripped jeans and had been sporting muffin tops of vast proportions, they would have looked a whole lot worse, even if more "covered." I do know what you mean, but the owners of lithe young bodies are lucky and I hope that their behaviour made it clear that they were not "on the pull". I remember DH taking our (then) 13 year-old to a very posh birthday party many years ago and coming back looking very unhappy as he described some of the girls as you do "jail bait" - our DDs were always tomboys - but I think it can depend on how clothes are worn as much as whether they are skimpy or not.

My GD (21), until recently used to wear a pair of cut-off denims over black leggings which left nothing to the imagination, and some equally indecent dresses when out clubbing. However, she has taken to wearing skirts of a more demure length - not much above the knees. Could this be a sign of maturity?