Private landlords and illegal immigrants

it won't work in practice,,,,its just the same old' lets say something that sounds good to appease the chattering classes'

If we had decent ID cards problem would be solved

Jess- brick wall

Surely movealot if you have a bunch or landlords or landlord/employers who are breaking the law, they would not be concerned about breaking the law a little bit more and therefore a few court cases would not deter them?
How many prosecutions do you hear about in your area for operating HMOs illegally? The only one I recall in this area surfaced when a woman and child died in a fire in an unregistered HMO. The LA is really tight on approving applications - but you have to get change of use planning permission and then pay about £800 just to apply to be an HMO, plus install fire alarms etc. Upshot is that we still have lots of illegal HMOs.
I'd be really interested in suggestions about how this will actually work in practice? It is all easy to say "that sounds like a good idea" and to dismiss any comments that it might be impractical. But how then, is it a practical, workable idea?

Right on AKA & MOVE.

Exactly, moved!

A good, sensible post Movedalot, i agree with you, especially with your last sentence.

Aka do you honestly believe that getting landlords to check
immigration status (even if that were possible) would flush out illegal immigrants - the clue is in the word illegal - outside the law- they are not renting through normal, legitimate channels but being horribly exploited. As well as this policy being a knee- jerk reaction to UKIP, it is also cynically and deliberately and wickedly feeding into the whole anti- immigration-cum-racist discourse that is so beloved of much of the tabloid press and the right. There is a serious debate to be had about immigration but suggesting that landlords checking immigration status is the way to go is sheer and cynical opportunism. We've had employers doing checks for a long time now and whilst responsible employers do it properly, it has not stopped the employment of illegal immigrants because that operates under the radar. What landlord checks might do, as others on this thread have suggested, is to increase the difficulty that people here legitimately would have in finding accommodation as some landlords would be worried about falling foul of the law.

I used to be responsible for recruitement and didn't find it very hard to do all the checks. A very small booklet would suffice for landlords. If someone had very good forged documents I am sure the authorities would not find the landlord guilty if he/she could prove they had done all they could to check.

I don't think it would be necessary to have some huge campaign to check them out, just one or two cases brought to court and that would be enough of a warning to dodgy landlords.

This seems to me to be made out to be a much bigger issue than it actually is.

Jess our posts crossed too and amazingly we are saying the same thing. However I'd like to know exactly what tone you mean? I thought I was introducing a touch of humour in with my comment about the Wombles.

Given your tone not sure that you are really interested in discussing aka But I will give a serious answer.
Difficult for me to say where they live, seeing as neither I nor the government have any idea how many illegal immigrants there are in the country or which boroughs they live in. Best guess is that if they do exist in any numbers, they are working for employers who do not comply with employment legislation (because compliant employers check visas and passports), earning very low wages and consequently living in desperately overcrowded accommodation that does not comply with any of the licencing legislation for housing in multiple occupation (HMOs). Or indeed others may be living in accommodation that is provided for them by those who are exploiting them.

Bluebell our posts have crossed. Your reply doesn't do you any credit.

To go back to the OP, it is the job of the Border Agency to stop illegal immigrants in the first place, but then having got through how else can they be traced? We have plenty of legal immigrants and genuine asylum seekers who need support and housing without adding illegals into the equation. Many illegal immigrants are horribly exploited .. consider the case of the Morecambe Bay Cocklers as an example. Then there are the girls who are brought to this country to service the sex trade, who thought they'd be working as waitresses or nannies. Many illegal immigrants are more sinned against than sinners. So it's not just a question of thinking this is a gut reaction to the pathetic policies of UKIP but actually starting to formulate some kind of policy that might work.

That's rich Aka after your post to Jess!! Why don't you try arguing your case - oh sorry that assumes a) you've got a case to argue and b) the intellectual ability to argue it

Get off your high horse Bluebell

Oh for goodness sake Aka - you don't have to be a landlord to understand what's going on here - it's all about feeding UKIP/anti-immigration hysteria. If we all had to experience everything before we could comment on it, there wouldn't be many posts on GN. Jess is posing some very valid questions - how could it work? The whole problem at the moment with so much policy is a) there's no evidence base and b) no one has thought through the operational issues

Ok Jess got it. You're the expert, everyone else is stupid an amateur. Even though you've never been a landlord or lady?

bluebell I'm shocked. Why would you want to starve anybody?

So where do you think illegal immigrants live Jess? On Wimbledon Common with the Wombles?

Still they could always go to TESCO"S or WAITROSE !

JessM - I agree absolutely with all you've said . This is nothing to do with tackling the 'problem' of illegal immigration and everything to do with UKIPs recent successes. Actually I'm surprised that we allow people to shop in Sainsbury's without valid documentation!! Starve them out!

aka when someone says "with respect" it always sounds like the opposite is meant don't you think? Or am I being over-sensitive?
I have worked for years in recruitment and looked at many passports. Illegal immigration is not a huge problem in most areas of recruitment and I don't think it is in the housing market either. Indeed we do not know if it is a "huge problem" in the country do we?
I think this is a cheap vote grabbing bit of legislation that is unlikely to have any effect whatsoever on the unquantified illegal immigration problem. And how would we know, seeing as the starting point is by definition unknown - how would you know if it had improved anything?
If it was to have a significant effect you would have to set up an inspection system. Sledge hammers and nuts come to mind.
Inspection would cost a fortune as the most unscrupulous landlords are not going to be licenced are they? Not a case of "just" visiting, regularly, all the local HMOs and inspecting all their photocopied passports. Which in itself would be a burden on a local authority.
So how, exactly, do you think this legislation can be drafted or implemented?
The main point I am making though is that assessing passports and visas is not something an amateur can do. Any more than CRB checking or financial background checking is something an amateur can do. But many landlords are amateurs are they not?

Jess with respect what are you talking about? It's not the huge problem you seem to think it is? Before I had an agent I did all the paperwork myself. It's important to get the 'right' tenant, any landlord will agree with that. You don't just let to the first person who turns up. There are checks to be made first or you'll end up with problems. My motto is 'if there's a problem get over it'. Whereas others seem to see insoluble problems at every turn.

Some people just love to be negative!!

The issue of identity cards to all legal residents would go a long way to solve this problem. But we Brits resist it for some reason though we appear to be happy to produce passports (no address) or driving licences or utility bills (your name probably not on it if your OH is) bus passes, EU medical cards and everyone and his auntie seems to be out and about with work or student ID dangling round their necks, hanging from their pockets or lapels or ties. How weird is that?

Very tricky idea and like a lot of ideas that politicians put forward, extremely difficult to enforce. You would have to have significant fines for the landlord to deter - and then who would check?
Agree with Jane that it is very hard to do. When recruiting it is legal requirement to check their right to be here and to be working - not the same thing. Easy to do if someone gives you a normal UK passport or a normal Spanish one for that matter. Not easy to do if someone gives you an Indian or Nigerian passport (say) with a UK visa stamp in it. That is when you need to have gone on a training course to interpret the significance of the visa stamp. Small businesses need to cover themselves e.g. by having an HR advisor or only using employment agencies to find and screen candidates. There is also the issue with any passport of - is it authentic. Cue training course mark two.
And I have on more than one occasion looked at a passport and thought "That photo could be any youngish man from their neck of the woods ".
It is really not feasible to impose this on private landlords who are letting one or two rooms. May be feasible to impose on agents.
But you made it compulsory for letting agents and not private landlords you would push the illegal landlords (further) underground. There are not the ones who have taken the trouble to get properly licenced with the LA as HMOs probably.
And yes, it is a deterrent for landlords and agents if they have another admin cost added, so discrimination against those without EU passports would probably result.