daughter problems

Please tell social services straight away, they are very aware now of the link between domestic violence and child abuse, and encouraging your GD to lie to her father constitutes emotional abuse. Please dont worry that SS will sweep in an take the child into care, but they may well put her on the at risk register and monitor the situation

Please contact social services - this is a safeguarding issue. The combination of domestic abuse and drugs is extremely potent and dangerous. Did your D report the assault to the police? if so the man would have to be risk assessed by social services before he could live with her again. He is dangerous and violent and totally unsuitable to be caring for a child.

You seem to be between a rock and a hard place.

I would definitely not involve the father.

I notice that there has already been one court case and it was decided then that your GD could be with the boyfriend if he was having treatment. Therefore, I am wondering if further legal action would have any effect.

Anyway, what could happen? GD taken into care?

Can't see any way out except to provide support to daughter and hope for the best.

Thank you Nightowl for you post. No my SIL doesnt know about the boyfriend living with daughter, I think he would probably apply for custody if he did, the trouble is my DGD hardly knows him, my daughter left when she was 6 weeks old. He also lives 400 miles away and has a job that takes him away from home for days at a time, which would mean DGD would be in constant strange childcare. Secondly, although he does visit regularly, staying in our home with DGD, which gives the little girl a safe and familiar house in which to get to know her dad. But he does frighten her with his so called disapline, and tends to shout at her, which is hard for us to witness, although we keep out of the way so as not to inhibit him in any way. If he did get custody she would be removed from both her mother, grandparent and extended family and friends. She pines when its only a week away. We are too frightened to tell him as the consequences could be deverstating for all concerned. But I feel he will get to know of his own accord. This week the divorce will be finalised, and my daughter then has told us she intends to marry this man.

Thistledoo is there any reason why your SIL can't or won't apply for residence / custody of your granddaughter? I only ask because this might provide a better option for your granddaughter at the moment. Do you think he might apply if he knew the true situation with your daughter's ex being back in the household?

Meadow I've just ordered that book today as although I've left my husband 2 years ago someone said it was a good book to read.

I wonder if you might find the book "Why Does He do That" Inside the minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft helpful. Although it is an American book it has some good advice for the mother on how to support an abused daughter on page 370 as well as some really good insight throughout the book into how these men get women to fall in love with them and how they think. It is not her fault. Any woman at any level in society can fall deeply in love with an abusive man (he makes sure that she does by concealing his true nature initially)and then find it very, very difficult to leave for all sorts of reasons
You must be very afraid for your daughter and granddaughter and I really hope you daughter can find the best and safest path for herself and her daughter in the future.

My heart goes out to you, it's an unbearable situation, I hope you get this all sorted soon . Xx

It is a huge burden and I don't want to worry you , but the amount of DV and EV that goes unreported behind closed doors is huge. Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it isn't happening. I'm glad that your Dgd is happy and it may just be that her and her dad didn't discuss if mummy had a boyfriend so she didn't have to lie. I must say I would be very tempted to ring ss just so that they could assess the situation to make sure your dgd isn't in an unsafe environment. Families are hard aren't they?

Thank you all for your very supportive suggestions, believe me it matters a great deal. Not much has changed since my first posting of our problems except to say that the daughters partner is still in situ and as far as I know still taking the suboxone. Of course I only have my daughters word for this. There hasnt been any more violence, but I wait with heart in mouth in case it happens again. I havent done anything at all except keep the lines of comunication open with her, although I find it so difficult to talk to her about anything, as she thinks I am just waiting to critisize, and if anything does happen, she tells me I can just say, told you so. My little DGD seems ok at present although I do worry that she doesnt know where her loyalties lie. She recently spent a week with her daddy in Manchester and I felt sure she would let it out about who was living with her. But she obviously didnt!! But as my husband says, is there anything he can do, if he does not or cannot take custody. It is a burden to carry but things are quiet at present.

Thistledoo Do not blame yourself for your daughters mistakes. All of us know families where most of the children are a credit to their parents but one has gone completely off the rails. If she is an only child, it must be very easy to think it is your fault, but she is 37, she was over 30 when the change in her behaviour started, no way can it be your fault.

Have you considered talking to your GD's father? He ought to know and not telling him now may mean that if he finds out later - and he assuredly will - then he will blame you for not telling him before and may break contact.

As has already been said it is your GD that counts, tell her father, he will then be on your side and you should still have contact with your GD through him. Say nothing and you could alienate both parents and possibly lose your GD for ever.

Hello Thistledoo - I'm a new gransnet member and read your thread with empathy. My family had a similar issue several years ago when my daughter moved a man in who was on a heroin substitute, drank heavily and had a history of violence and using drink and drugs from his teenage years. He was in his late 30's at this stage. My daughter refused to accept he posed a threat to her or her children. The children's father was worried, as he'd known the new boyfriend for years to be a threat to any woman he was involved with. We had experience of police/social workers and family courts within the year. If you want to pm me, I'd be happy to talk in more detail. I don't think I've seen any comments so far about whether your daughter has any history of drug use? I don't want to raise your anxiety further, but my professional (safeguarding) and personal experience is that it is rare for only one partner to be involved in drug use. I agree with all the previous comments, if you are going to contact any agency, make it children's services as going through the nspcc (who I have also worked for) simply means they will fax the social work team, rather than investigate themselves. I retired recently and it is clear that services are increasingly stretched, and the threshold for intervention higher than most of us would want. You are in a difficult position, because if you don't inform your granddaughter's father and the authorities that you are concerned about your granddaughter's emotional welfare then you may be criticised for this if matters escalate. I don't say this is fair, I absolutely recognise the impossible situation you are in. Best wishes

I know the risks, I feel like I am between a rock and a hard place. I have no idea whether my DGD is in any physical danger, but I do know she is in pyscological danger, she is being forced to keep a secret from her daddy and I dont know if she is being threatened, if so what with. This chap has been an addict since a teenager and is now nearing 40, surely his brain must have been afftected in some way. My own thoughts are that he is living off my daughters benifits and CSA money, which is quite considerable. Needless to say he has no job and has never worked in his life. I would step back from the situation if my DGD was not living with him. I understand what you are saying Petullus but he has been violent, thankfully not in front of her. Its this and the drug situation that makes me unable to engage with this character on any level. I know how bad that must sound to some of you.

I see your point petallus and there is no easy solution. However it seems to me that Thstledoo's granddaughter is clearly at risk - she is living with a man who has already been violent towards her mother. Research, as well as common sense tells us that children living in situations of domestic violence are themselves at increased risk of physical harm. They undoubtedly suffer emotional harm. She is also at risk of accidental poisoning with his drugs whether they are legal or illegal. Drug users are often careless and chaotic, leave their substances lying around and children suffer the consequences. I think you are in an impossible position Thistledoo as whatever decision you make has its risks.

After some thought I decided that if I were in your position I would think very hard before doing anything confrontational. If you lose contact with your daughter altogether it won't help your granddaughter.

Is your granddaughter in danger? You haven't said so.

I understand that this maybe future son-in-law of yours is not what you would have wanted. You know what, I think I'd try and accept the situation, even be reasonably friendly with him, in order to be able to stay close to the situation and monitor future developments with a view to looking out for my granddaughter's interests.

I anticipate many posters will disagree with this but really bringing in the father or social services might result in everything becoming much worse.

Grannyknot thank you for the web link you gave, I have read it all and feel so much better informed.

nightowl The things we used to say about them would have made their ears burn. Particularly their analysis bit.

Thank you all for your advice you are all so kind and the practical advice is reassuring to say the least. I did forget to put in my first post that my daughter is telling her friends that she intends to marry this bloke and have children together. This is going to sound really bad, but I could never accept this person as part of my family. How will I be able to wrestle with my feelings if they have a family together. This man has led my daughter into a life so far removed from the upbringing she had, I thought we had taught her respect, care, and hard work are the things that bring rewards in life.
I feel I have failed her somewhere along the line.

Nelliemoser I completely agree with what you say about the NSPCC. I have shared your experience and frustration. I was avoiding saying it because I was trying to not deter anyone from phoning and sadly, people have more respect for the NSPCC than for social services. Although we know it is misplaced, at least at the referral end of things (I'm sure they still do good work with families when commissioned to do so by social services) I would still prefer people to phone them than no-one. You are right though, the faxed referrals consist of little more than a checklist together with a lot of spurious analysis.

When I think that sounds like very good advice.
I see lots of addicts on this in the tribunals. Many of them still use as well.many of them are living with their young families. I always worry, but presume they have been advised and that those treating them are aware.

Hi thistledoo to add to "when"s response, suboxone is a combination of buprenorphine (an opioid substitute medication) and naloxone (a drug that reverses the effects of opiates). It is positive that he is in treatment and hopefully he is compliant and attending his appointments and not just picking up a script!

Here's a bit more info about suboxone vs. methadone (the latter is the substitute drug also used to treat opioid addiction):

www.diffen.com/difference/Methadone_vs_Suboxone

NellieM I guess it depends where you worked and the local relationship between NSPCC and social services. Here in Manchester, clerical officers covered the SSD phones so NSPCC were invaluable in collating as much helpful info as posible to give to the relevant SSD office and for liaising with police. The SSD restructured so many times and their services suffered. NSPCC are still heavily involved and they have a few offices around the Manchester area. If you have a qualified social worker answering the phone for reports of risk to children (which we would all say is the ideal) they have expertise in getting the info they need.

*Wheni'm. Re the NSPCC.

When I was working and getting such calls of concern in children's services, it was far more useful to to take the calls directly from even an anonymous caller, than to get a regurgitated phone call faxed from an NSPCC call centre person probably following a checklist script.
Their faxed reports involved several sheets of paper which often took quite a lot of sorting out and re-reading to piece together a coherent account of what had allegedly happened.

As a qualified worker if you took the call yourself you could get far more information than ever came from the NSPCC, and it was often possible to give essential advice straight away or to decide if the call required any further investigation. This saved a lot of time.

All my former colleagues who used to get these NSPCC refs used to find them very time consuming to go through.

This qualified front line worker system was removed in favour of a clerical grade based call centre model. An analogy is having to give health details to your GP's receptionist to be passed on rather than being able to discuss it directly with a triage nurse who was qualified and experienced enough to be able to quickly assess the situation and to ask the right question at the time.

NSPCC won't investigate child abuse concerns now, but will take action on behalf of concerned people who contact them for help and advice, and they do work with children and families in partnership with social services. If you report concerns to them, they have a duty to tell police and/or social services.

Sounds like a horrible situation when there is a small child involved. Social services certainly need to assess. If he is on Suboxone, that's a positive factor. It's a beneficial treatment that latches on to receptors in the brain more effectively than Subutex, and will be closely monitored by a drug team and GP. I woud advise giving information about child safety concerns to those involved with drug treatment of this man. They won't share information with you, but have the same safeguarding duties as all other statutory agencies to follow up on risks to children.