... to feel angry about single mother of 11 getting new house built for her!!

I wonder how much her father was paid for that interview!

No, I wouldn,t want her as a neighbour either.

I don't understand why anyone would want eleven children either, but I can imagine having a negative father who kept down-talking me and my ending up thinking having babies was the only thing I was good at. Who knows? We certainly don't and nipeither does the press.

This woman's situation is not 'normal' and I suspect she is at one of the extreme ends of the "Normal Curve" for human behaviour. Maybe she's just thick. Maybe she is lazy. Maybe she has no self-respect expect about her ability to produce kids.

Give the poor woman a break. She is not really causing much damage to society in the big scheme of things. She is just being used as a scapegoat so that angry people can vent and prove their superiority.

Apologies POGS I wasn't getting at you personally when I said it wasn't fair to judge until we know the whole story. I was making a general comment.

You are right Granjura her situation is not "normal" although I am not sure what normal is any more!

I personally, cannot understand anyone choosing to have so many children. I have three grandchildren and looking after them is hard work and it is important that each child gets their share of attention. Imagine if you had to split yourself eleven ways? It would be impossible.

I see from today's newspaper that her father has now stated that he considers her to be lazy and that she should get "off her backside and work". If what he is saying is true then she was raised in a "normal" environment where the both parents worked. He has also said he doesn't know the name of the fathers of two of the children. It appears she has a "partner" who is father of the last 5 children (also unemployed). Her 2 eldest children have now gone on to have children of their own (although the article doesn't say whether they are in stable relationships). Her father has also said that following an illness she is unable to have more children.

I wouldn't want to demonise this woman as we can only speculate on her motives for having so many children. I agree that her situation isn't normal and the majority of people having to claim benefits are doing the best the can.

I don't know whether there would have been a social worker around when she had her first child who could have educated her on the subject of birth control and maybe encouraged her to go on and get an education which would lead to a steady job.

A lot of girls have babies when they are young but choose not to let that stop them from achieving ambitions above getting a council house and living on benefits.

And it seems to me also, that the demonisation will surely extend to the children. They didn't ask to be born or to be drawn into this. they will be the focus of comment at school and in their community and I rather imagine that will do little for sense of self worth but just make them very resentful of all those who feel free to make judgements about their mother.

granjura I don't think anyone is suggesting that this woman's position is normal or fair. Indeed, this unusual situation has been widely publicised precisely in order to demonise normal families on benefits and in social housing. Many things in life are unfair – we just have to get over them.

I am quite sure nobody has said the position is normal and fair - only that she is not representative of the majority of benefit claimants, which some people seem to believe, in spite of the government's own statistics.
I don't know why she had eleven children, and neither does anybody else on this forum.

That must have been tough Gillybob - and everybody makes 'mistakes'- sadly yours was compounded by the the early death of your partner. But you didn't go on to have 9 more children, did you? And that makes all the difference surely. I cannot fathom how somebody, in these days of free and freely available contraception, will go on to have 11 children and expect others to pick up the tab. She would have been given a lot of advice and offers of support by the hospital after each birth - and contraception would have been clearly discussed - as is always the case with large families.

I'll refuse to 'demonise' her, but I'll also refuse to be told that her position is 'normal and fair'.

Well said, Bags

I think taking responsibility in life is a luxury. It's a luxury born of adulthood, education and freedom. Many people, like the mother at the centre of this story, don't have those things. She had her first baby at the age of fourteen. She was still a child. She wouldn't have had those essential responsibility support systems in place yet (neither did I when I was fourteen; neither do most fourteen year olds). She was a loser before she'd even finished growing up. Poor kid.

Let's hope her own children don't fall down the same holes their mother did. Let's hope, and even give them a chance, to mature into the luxury of being able to take responsibility with all the back up adulthood, education and freedom gives them.

And let's not be angry at the losers who never get there. Let's just try to minimise their number.

gillybob

"It isn't fair to judge until you know the whole story"

I couldn't agree more. Can that not apply to me too. I think others also posted similar comments didn't they.

Oh POGS I don't think * susieb755* meant any sarcasm (???) I had 2 children and could not "afford" either of them. My DS was born when I was just 18. His father was a waste of space who left me quite literally holding the baby. My DD was born when I was only 23 and her father sadly died very young. It isn't fair to judge until you know the whole story.

susieb

Thanks for the sarcasm, obviously you feel my taking responsilbility in my life was a sort of luxury.

Pogs, I congratulate you on being able to make a 'choice' to only have one child.

Sadly, sometimes if people waited until they thought they could afford it, so few children would be born and who would look after us in our dotage ( JOKE)

But seriously sometimes women still have no choice over pregnancy - without going into personal details too much, rape within marriage was not illegal until 1991.....and I know from work I do with DV victims, it is still common place now

From my experience there are a lot of people in a similar sort of position,ie 4+ children. Also amongst the immigrant population. But it is non PC to state this fact.

Pension contributions are tax free plus employers contribution so why shouldn't these pensions be taxed. And none of the antis have come up with a suggestion as to what should be done with this family if they are not supported and by moving out of two houses these are released for other families

I love the way 'do gooder' is taken to be a term of abuse!

Well, the right wing press have obviously done a very good job! Many people seem to be saying that this woman (or the version we have of her) is typical of benefit claimants and single mothers. I obviously think it is unwise to have more children than one can support, but I just don't believe that there are huge numbers in this position.
I would love to know what the people who are angry would propose doing about the children who are now in existence.

She's getting it, isn't she? Lots of it....

I don't think they will merlotgran. I am sure your DD is doing a good job of bringing them up and, hopefully, the smallness of their house will not bother them too much. I have no doubt at all that you are all making sure they get a good education.

This woman needs help.

I do hope two of my DGCs don't grow up thick and bitter and turn to a life of idleness or crime because their hard working single mum can't afford a bigger house for them.

I warm eco house would be just the ticket as my DD is recovering from a serious bout of bronchitis.

Surely you can see they have to look after the children. You don't want them growing up thick and bitter. Perhaps starting out on a life of idleness, or even crime.

It's an eco house so it will be easier to keep warm cheaply.

Whether we approve of having 11 children or not, they exist so do need to be housed appropriately.

However, it seems perverse in the extreme to be purposely building such a house for one family - they currently have two adjoining houses which, whilst not being totally suitable because of layout etc., is adequate I would have thought, even if not ideal.

There are many families, large and small, council tenants or owners, or those languishing in B&Bs, who live in less than ideal homes.

I agree with everything said about this topic. What on earth is the so called do gooders up too now? I think the first thing that would have been a help and not a burden on the tax payers would have been a long lecture in contraception after her second baby. I am 71 now and have worked hard all my life in various jobs but went back to nursing, so i still pay tax on my NHs pension, just lost my hubby and now they stop me double on a small pension of his, why should we have to struggle to keep the likes of this woman and her kids, fed, schooled and warm as toast in a new house where three or four elderly and infirm people could be housed for the rest of their lives.