Cut out of their lives

I've been reading such heartbreaking stories that mine seems very slight. I have 4 children and three of them have become more and more difficult to keep in contact with. It makes me so sad. I have just been reading a book, set in South Korea, called "Please look after Mother". It has made me realise that the same thing happens the world over and that we are the only creature on the planet that tries to maintain that contact after our young have attained adulthood. I suppose I must just keep trying from my end or "get over it".

Yes, Petra - we have thought about it, one kind friend wanted to pay for it! But, we find ourselves living through a nightmare that is so far from anything we ever anticipated happening to us, and we do everything we possibly can think of to placate, not rock the boat because surely this must come right. Stupid, idiotic most likely absolutely misguided. And all horrifically true of so many of us in the same situation.

Also what makes the private detective tracking them down pointless - we do know that they have moved house and countries several times over the past 3 years so each move would put us back to where we are now.

Nice thought though xx

Dear Nanban.
A while back you mentioned that you were trying to find your son. Have you thought about hiring a private detective. They do get results.

Quite right Crimson - we do placating, word watching and it feels like we even watch our brains thinking things through constantly but to no avail. We put Christmas parcel together and did a 3 hour round trip journey to leave them with a 'connection' of son's in-laws but absolute silence all round. We can't even be sure the children received them - maybe they just went straight in the bin!

Do we continue to try? If only there was an off-switch.

We all back down constantly, turn the other cheek, mediate etc etc and then, one day in a split second we say something or do something and the eggshell breaks and our grandchildren are gone. Before it happened to me I have to admit to thinking that something must have been done or said to bring about these situations but, alas I've realised that is not the case. And it's heartbreaking.

Well done CHEELU.

I too sometimes have to hold in the urge to let rip and do/say what I think will actually help the situation rather than make it worse.

DIL's can be horrid, mine rang me one day after she had had an argument with my son and said I dont like you and you dont like me, and I answered, what have I ever done for you to think I dont like you and she had no answer, we are much better now, mainly because I backed down over and over agian for the sake of my son and his child, responsibilty is very caging but very necesary when there are children that we love involved.

Those are very good points crimson (and having met Maniac I echo your comment about her). My sister fosters children and takes them to visit grandparents to maintain the positive family relationships that some of the children have, even those who are going to be adopted. They have memory boxes that are compiled with the support of social services. To think of grandchildren not having that sort of access so they can choose for themselves as they grow seems cruel.

I agree that they don't always know or understand at the time, that a grandparent has suddenly gone out of their lives, and it is more heart-rending for the grandparent in most cases, but children grow up and question why and what has happened. It has taken some months for my grandson to catch up with news about people and events he thinks he has missed as a result of our relatively short separation. My son and I say nothing when grandson asks to repeat activities he enjoyed before the separation, as we can see he wants the security that these things give him. He's nearly 13 but asks if stories can be read to him at bedtime, can he bake cookies and bread like he did when younger, as well as doing things more appropriate to his age such as using the electric mixer or wielding a sharp knife to cut meat. It's easy to forget the impact that separation has on a child, and the secure and constant presence of grandparents is underestimated.

Maybe there aren't any laws about grandparents rights because, historically it's quite a new area. People are living much longer and more children now have living grandparents. But, when you actually meet someone like Maniac and become aware of how wrong it is that her grandchildren should be deprived of her company you feel that something, somehow needs to change. I mean, adopted children now have the means to contact their birth parents and that; again is relatively new.

That is the great sadness of it all, maniac and when. I sympathise, but I really don't know what can be done in such cases because parents normally have all the responsibility of care and authority and I don't see how that could be changed.

I know when's problem included the relationship between her son and grandson and that has now been resolved, thank goodness, and that has meant she can resume her relationship with the child.

With regard to historical rights and responsibilities, I'm glad the clearly unfair paternalistic ones have changed. It's worth remembering too that many children grow up without relationships with their grandparents for 'natural' reasons, and they do not suffer because of that. For a child to have a good relationship with a grandparent (or grandparents) is a wonderful bonus, but it is a bonus, not a necessity. I suspect that it is actually harder for the GPs not to have the relationship than for the kids.

If only good vibes from other GPs would help! If only....!

Children's rights should come first and if they had a loving relationship with their Grandparents no parent has a right to deny them that right.

Changes were made in Australia. It is all fairly new but I believe heading in the right direction. I know a couple who were about to seek access to their deceased son's children when the mother relented and allowed them to have time with their grandchildren rather than go through the courts. It must have broken their hearts to be denied time with their grandchildren only because their son had died.

You are all right in what you say - sometimes partners battle with staying together but if grandparents had 'rights' of access to grandchildren it would remove one of the most difficult to deal with bits of 'weaponry'. I bang on about 'grandparent rights' simply because I am one, of course, but because babies and young children aren't in any position to demand rights for themselves and as an exiled grannie I have no way to help our grandchildren.

And, legislation is one thing, but enforcing quite another. One step at a time albeit very small - I don't agree with rights for one person diminishes the power of another when living creatures are involved - power is used as a weapon not a tool to be used for good. Rights are to help the weak overcome difficulties.

The historic tale of fathers having 'power' over wives and children is very relevant - that was recognised as a bad thing and so should our situation be.

Legislation would be a starting point.

You're right Bags grandparents have no 'rights' in law.In our case the relationship breakdown was between DS and ex-DIL (and her new partner)
I did not have a falling out with her -have tried to make peace - but she has decided to 'excommunicate' all my family alleging that she is doing it in best interests of the child!!!

I agree with you Bags. Grandparents' rights would have made my life easier when I temporarily lost access to my grandson, but it is the children whose rights matter, not mine. No child should be used as a weapon of control between adults who cannot get on. Parents who get brassed off with their parents, or separating spouses who don't want to see their in-laws, conveniently forget that their children had a loving relationship with grandparents that has now been disrupted.

Interesting area bags - wind back a century or so and adult males were the people with rights and women and children had none. A man could take his children away from their mother and she would have little redress.
Our culture has changed and adult males have much less power, particularly when it comes to their children. Children have much greater rights. Children's right is a persuasive argument - the right to have contact with both parents, grandparents etc.
The trouble is that if you give one person rights it removes power from someone else. We have become a very child centred culture in some ways and grandparents are way down the pecking order.
As a society we are still grappling with this balance.
And of course rights are nice things to have - but if people do not respect them, then it is very hard to counter. There are so many examples of a separated/divorced parent with custody exercising power by using access to the children as a weapon and not recognising the rights of the other parties - their anger and resentment in practice trumps other people's reasonable behaviour.
The reasonable ones that act in an adult manner and recognise the rights of others are not the problem.

I'm realise I'm sticking my neck out here, but I don't think grandparents have any 'rights' with regard to their grandchildren. Safety issues aside, the relationship between grandchildren and grandparents depends entirely on that between the grandparents and parents, as the sad stories on this thread show. If the GP/P relationship breaks down, I do not see how it would be possible to give GPs access to GCs without the parents' agreement.

This is what makes it all so difficult for those whose family relations have broken down for whatever reason.

And so sad

Sorry, I got interrupted! Of course, if there was a framework of legislation to give grandparents the basic human right of access to their grandchildren, on behalf of children too young to understand, it would, at the most basic level, remove the greatest weapon for hurt/blackmail that exists between partners.

I'm not expressing that very well, but I hope you get the gist.

Speak to anyone out there about the rights of grandparents and one and all assume we have rights - it's a natural assumption and should be blindingly obviously true. Oh so sadly not. As exiled grandparents we have been advised that the only thread we can use is the well-being of our grandchildren, and not to mention our 'rights'. In other words we are invisible. We have all lived our lives for the good of our children; worked for them; made sacrifices for them; done our best for them, and our reward is invisibility and helplessness.

Of course we battle for a relationship with our grandchildren for the good of everyone - there is no relationship so special, or beneficial, as that between grandparents and grandchildren.

Wellcome CHEELU
I'm very puzzled by your last message.This thread of over 1000 tells of many grans and dads who are denied contact.Grans have no legal rights and there are more than 1 million children in UK denied access to grandparents.

riclorian I dont understand--how was it possible for her to say to your son you can not see his children,, there is no court in the land that would allow that, did your son not seek visit rights to see his children

butterfly here's another thread that might be useful for you. It hasn't been added to for a while, but has lots of posts. If you type 'denied contact' or 'cut out of their lives' in the forums search box, you'll see a long list of similar threads.

Good luck!

SJO good luck for tomorrow.

SJP how did it all go? I so hope it went well for you all.

Will be wishing you all the good luck in the world sjp.