elderly in hospital

carosanto my heart goes out to you, I looked after my mum and two aunts in the last years of their life and at times had to insist, complain, shout and at one point have a tantrum in the G.P.s waiting room. These ladies worked all their lives and served their country during the war why did they need a bolshie relative to get the care that they deserved and what about the poor souls that have no-one to shout for them?

Thanks folks for your support. We all (my 3 brothers and I) wanted to complain but were stopped by the sheer grief of our Mum, who just could not cope with any more. We are all literate, articulate people, but honestly this situation reduced us one by one to silence.

Reading the posts in this thread has given me hope that we ca make a difference. Count me in to any campaign going, I am up for it!

Thanks again, Carosanto

All these stories- why are none of you naming the places these things are happening? Could someone respond? What is the point otherwise, except to share sadder and sadder experiences. Then it stops.No one is able to take any action.

Can any one of you who have posted your experiences tell the rest of us where it happened, and what happened when you complained- or did you complain?

If not, what stopped you? Fear, exhaustion, it really matters. Posting stories is soothing and sharing, but ultimately wont change anything.

Mermaid, I'm sure a lot of us did complain and it probably got us nowhere. After the frustration of trying to get proper care for a loved one the frustration of coming up against a brick wall from the medical profession and hospital administrators is just to much. I was told by a consultant at King George Hospital in London borough of Redbridge that he refused to discuss my aunts treatment with me unless I was medically qualified and then showed me the door. Also when you have just lost a loved one you are not in the best frame of mind to start a long and drawn out complaints procedure.

I think people don't complain for a number of reasons. Sometimes it is grief. Sometimes it is because you are so busy looking after or making arrangements for looking after. Sometimes it is because you think your loved one might get re-admitted to same place and might be victimised (there is not always a choice of hospitals). Sometimes it is a case of we are a meek blooming bunch of Brits who don't like complaining. It is one thing not complaining about an unpleasant meal (like the one i had in a brasserie blanc last week - my excuse was someone else was treating us) - we just tell people, and don't go there again. But poor care is different.
I did not complain to MIL hospitals because I am a mere DIL and my MIL is also still with us and hates fuss. So i just wrote a general letter to MP who forwarded to minister who wrote to me.
I think Carosanto you could legitimately complain without involving your mother. It does not have to be done immediately - and it might make you feel better.
Zephrine too - i think you could write a letter to the chief exec of the hospital and copy your MP. They would investigate your complaint fully. And I think that consultant was completely out of line, both rude and arrogant - unless he thought maybe you were not a close relative - in which case that is what he should have said.
Hospital Chief exec will take all complaints seriously and give them some time and attention. They have to. As will your MP. And if you write to both this will amplify the effect.
You have got me fired up to write the chief exec of Solihull about the poor responses to toileting requests witnessed. Not our relatives but elderly women who had no relatives around, which i witnessed recently.

Zephrine how rude of that pompous ass consultant. That makes me soooo angry! I think JessM's advice is good, I have complained before about a doctor at the large hospital where my daughter was a patient and something was done about it.
My 88 year old mother is now in hospital as I write this but I think its only going to be for a day or two. The best thing I believe is that she is in a smaller country hospital and my sister is also very good friends with the Director of Nursing for the hospital. I feel relieved that my sister has stepped in and we have finally gotten my mother to stay with my sister for the time being. Since Christmas I stayed at my mother's house four nights a week so that she wasn't on her own all week but she is getting so frail and ill that it was not enough. It does help when there are a few members of a family stepping in the make sure their elderly relatives are okay. I really hate to think of vulnerable old people battling on their own especially at the end of their lives.
People do really need to take responsibility for their elderly relatives and even elderly neighbours and not just trust nursing homes and hospitals with their care!

jessM My mum was her closest relative but she had terminal cancer and I was her next closest, I did complain to the chief exec and got a very vague reply, the consultant had already been complained about by someone else and it was being investigated, they would add mine to the list. I never heard anything else about it, Cis by that time was in another hospital and I was trying to get the best care I could there. I think the toileting problem is a widespread and major problem. When I was visiting Cis one day she needed the loo, I told a nurse who said " oh, she always says that and never does anything when we get her there, just tell her to go in the bed and we'll clean it up after" It didn't seem to occur to them that she was very constipated because of her condition and to do something about it. It was a modern, purpose built, geriatric hospital but I can't begin to tell you how badly I felt about the general uncaring, unthinking care that the patients recieved. I could go on but I think I've probably ranted enough for now.

Oh it takes energy to complain as well doesn't it... when there are so many calls upon it.
And I guess Zephrine that hospital managers have a lot of other problems beyond rude consultants. Still not good enough though, by a mile.

(I worked in a hospital HR office years ago and was astounded one day to get an angry call from a consultant who had left his diary in the board room the previous day and it was somehow the fault of "administration"...why had they not returned it!!??)

I have just posted this on another thread - apparently the NHS has been purposely delaying operations to save money on a routine basis.
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/07/29/nhs-bosses-delay-treatmen_n_912920.html?1311935044

Perhaps this problem is further up the hierarchy than the terrible stories on this thread, but I think it says something about the lack of care in the whole system when NHS bosses are systematically causing pain and suffering in order to save money.

I am afraid the pain and suffering on this thread is not primarily about money. It is about lazy or uncaring staff and managers who let them get away with it.
And maybe about the way hospital cultures develop if senior managers are being asked to focus on other things.

As an ex-nursing sister, who trained at the Royal London, I am ashamed to call myself a nurse today and I am thankfull I was able to nurse and care for my mother and father at home untill they died

My DMIL was a sister in St Georges and when stuck in hospital would love to sort them out. Even a day after being rushed in, unconscious, and not quite sure why she was there: "Why do I feel I need to sort these girls out Jess?"
Nursing has changed so much hasn't it. Women these days would not put up with the regimented management of the 1950s. But this seems to have been replaced by non-managment in some wards.

Although there are no more comments for a while, having just joined you all and read everyones comments, I can only endorse what is being said and for me gkal sums it up. I too trained as an SRN in the 1960's and it certainly was strict and I am appalled at what I have seen as 'care' these days.

Although my dear Mum was very well cared for aged 90 in her final months, I used to visit , in a nice residential home, an elderly lady 97, who had no family. She was a delight, a very senior highly trained nurse in her time. When she was admitted to the local hospital for an infection she was treated appalling by the nurses, and she would also comment to me what poor care they gave to stroke patients in nearby beds! Even at that great age she could not believe what she saw.

With all the TV programmes and publicity being given I think we must keep on about such an emotive subject which will affect us and our nearest and dearest in the future.

My mother (88) had tests last week and they found she has esophageal cancer. For the first five days she was in a smaller hospital near her house which has been left empty while she has been staying for the last few weeks with my eldest sister. She was taken to the larger hospital (which I dislike) for radiation. Her doctor said she is too frail to have surgery. My elder sister who was with her the whole time (they were at the hospital for most of the day) and just left my mother for about fifteen minutes to get some food. The doctor then told mum that she has cancer. He could have waited until my mother had some family with her, but he decided it was best to tell a frail 88 year old while she was on her own.

The next day my sister drove back to her home, about three hours away to pick up more clothes as she had thought they would only be in the city for one day of tests. I went to visit with my youngest daughter who lives 500ks away and only had that day to see her grandmother. We arrived at the hospital and my mother wasn't there. They had decided to take her again by ambulance to the larger hospital to check again whether she should have surgery. None of us knew about this, we expected her to be there. The staff at the smaller hospital said they didn't understand why they had to do more tests for surgery when they had decided on radiation. While my mother was there someone decided it was a good time to tell her that she has three months to live.

We are putting in a complaint!!!!

Some terrible stories. You all must keep this thread going and somehow get the attention of politicions as has happened previously on mumsnet.

and complain whenever such things happen, knowing that, despite the attitude of the hospital staff - you are not alone

I want to say how awful the system is in NHS geriatric Hospitals and homes for the elderly. 3 yrs ago my father was sent to a geriatric NHS hospital after falling and being admitted to hospital. He was there for 3 months before being diagnosed with the onset of dementia. I live in Ireland and I spent all that time in UK with my son and his wife trying to find out what was going on.
He caught 3 infections whilst in there care, being quite healthy before this episode. I was told there was nothing wrong with him so I asked why He was incontinent and they told me they did not know!! I pushed on this and eventually they sent him for CT scan and he was diagnosed with the onset of dementia. Was this due to financial cost that he never had this at the beginning??
I arranged for him to go into a Care/Nursing home near my son, after good care for 1 yr the Manager left and an incompetent one was put in place. On one of my visits over I found him undressed and they could not find any clothes for him. Also his TV was on showing a snowy picture! I was livid and sought out the Manager who did not introduce herself or take me into her office.I had to stand in a hallway discussing my father. There were other issues I raised such as Missing items, it took a further30 mins for his clothes to turn up from the Laundry room. He had plenty.
I informed her I was going to make a complaint to Social Services., which I did and an investigation began. I never received an apology from the Care home over this matter.
Beginning of last year I asked NHS for extra care as I felt he needed it. It took most of last year to arrange this between Social services, the Care/Nursing home and NHS. You can imagine how frustrated and upset I was not living there and trying to sort it out from another country. Every time I visited him Social services were not able to see me. When they wanted to see me I was back in Ireland! In December it all changed as they finally agreed and he now has the care he should have had from the beginning of going into the home.
So that is my dealings with authority of those in charge of the elderly.
Sorry this is so long, have wanted to get it off my chest for a long time.

Good to let off steam, the frustrations such as these mentioned can make you fell quite ill from the stress.

We have a NHS here in Australia, and my husband had a knee replacement at our public hospital. The medical procedure was excellent, but some nursing care was appalling, with his other existing medical conditions being ignored, resulting in a great deal of harm.

I wrote a letter to the hospital authorities, listing the complaints calmly, and suggesting action to ensure no other patient suffers like he did.

They wrote back immediately, apologised, and listed the remedial action they were taking. This included sending the nurse who caused most of it for some re-training in the care of older patients, and post-operative patients.

The next time he went into hospital for the other knee to be done, he was treated wonderfully.

It was hard doing the letter, it really upset us both because it brought it all to the fore, but we felt better for it, and it worked.

My Aunt who is now 93 was in a Kent hospital and dosed up on diamorph. Whilst in a hallucinatory state she walked out, past the nurses station, down a main road into town where she got on a bus. She was inadequately clothed obviously and had no money. The bus driver however took her on board and dropped her where she wanted to be - it so happened to be the wrong side of a dual carriageway which she then crossed to get to her home. She rang me, some 100 miles away. I rang the hospital who sent people out to retrieve her. Also when visiting, we passed the same poor old lady, completely naked and curled in a ball. No nurse went near her; no nurse tried to cover her or draw the curtains around. Of course I complained madly but got all sorts of platitudes back. For sure that hospital has now closed but the staff have simply transferred to another and no doubt transferred their attitudes too.

Why spend yet more money on inquiries and commissions when everyone knows that the elderly are badly treated because they don't/can't fight back when they are so vulnerable - perfect neglect and bullying territory. Complaints should not be handled 'in-house' and penalties for bad treatment should be huge.

I spent two months visiting my son in hospital every afternoon to make sure that they were doing no more harm than they had already done (another thread). An elderly lady who was obviously confused came into the room and got into the empty bed next to him. When after 10 minutes nobody had come looking for her I took her down to the nurses station and explained. They showed no concern and said that she often wandered off, took her back to her room and left her. The same thing happened a couple of days later. I told her daughter what had happened and she complained. She was told that it was due to a shortage of staff but the nurse in charge of her only had four patients to look after. I am so glad that I am no longer nursing. I couldn't stand it.

I have been horrified by these stories, like the rest of you. We must start work on this:

Write to our MPs, demanding that the letter is sent to Andrew Lansley (but we must ALL do it)

Campaign for an independent body to monitor care of the elderly; as Barrowgran and Harrigran say, all prisons have an Internal Monitoring Board via which inmates can voice their concerns. The IMB is taken very seriously. Surely elderly patients deserve this sort of advocacy - people speaking for them when they can't speak for themselves. We must ALL do it.

Contact our own AgeUK, but also the national HQ so they can quote numbers

Share our stories.

I nursed my mother at home and she died holding my hand. It was good.

I've just remembered - huh - when we complained about my Aunt's lack of care and protection, the first response was that the Modern Matron couldn't discuss her case, or that of the other poor old soul, without their permission because of violating the Data Protection Act - oh such an easy get out especially when so many elderly people in hospital are confused and frightened and cannot give such permission. So, in fact our system has given the rotten apples protection from being complained about by anyone concerned for their welfare.

Phone the hospital and ask to speak to the Patient Liaison Officer.

My sister was admitted to hospital numerous times with gall stones never got treatment just stayed a day or 2 till the symptoms calmed down and was sent home. Once this was for about 3 hours she had to back On the 4th or 5th admission they kept telling her that she would be given treatment and this happened 3 days in a row. On Friday they suggested she went home for the weekend and came back on Monday. By this time I was fuming, she is self employed, so no work no pay, which added to her problems. I became the bossy big sister and told her no way was she to vacate that bed I phoned the Patient Liaison Officer and spoke to him, politely explained how many times she had been admitted and sent home over a matter of only a few weeks. I also told him that she was not vacating the bed over the weekend (1) she would probably be re-admitted yet again very shortly, or (2) there would be no bed for her on the Monday. This really sped things up. They arranged for her to go a neighbouring hospital for scans and tests and carried out the surgery.

I have also had to do similar for my Mother who was being "messed about" by the NHS, (will not bore you with the story) but even just asking to be transferred to the Patient Liaison Officer made things move.