Citizen's, or Basic Income

I've read it now, dj. Wow! It supports just about everything I've thought - and I hadn't read it.

In my own case, I think the Green Party's suggestions would have been do-able. As a lone parent with one child I would receive £210pw (as opposed to the less than £157.74 I did receive) + housing costs. Even with tax (£42?) deducted, the £11 would have made a difference.

It wouldn't have put me off looking for work, because it's still not very much for two people and I couldn't afford treats. Eventually I set myself up as self-employed, but I could only do that because I had the cash from the sale of my house. Before that I couldn't accept any casual work, because I would have lost JSA and I just couldn't afford to take the risk. If you're on JSA, you're stuck, because the transition to working tax credits is fraught. The big difference with CI would be I could have earned a few pounds without having it deducted. I also wouldn't have had to go through the ridiculous hassling of the work programme. You've probably gathered I have an issue with the WP, because the only people it provides work for are the providers themselves - at huge cost to taxpayers!

Great idea! When can I vote for the Greens? ;-)

The next election, unfortunately.
I said to my grandson that if people voted to leave the EU and Cameron gave up being PM, it might cause a big enough crisis that there would be an early election.
He said he did not want that, because he will be 18 two months before the regular election date and he wants to vote.
He probably does not realise what he's wishing on us.

I am sure the Green Party is still advocating a citizen's income.

I doubt if it will cause an election. Unfortunately, we might get an ever worse PM than we have. I'm with your grandson on this.

daphne, you describe just how this would free people up to work and to work as and when they can and as and when this fits into their life.

The Green Party paper makes very interesting reading Jen.

www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/guy-standing/uk-budget-king-canute-and-triumph-of-moralism-over-morality

Here's another article about basic income. It was written after Osborne called his minimum wage the living wage, but before Corbyn became leader of the Labour Party.

Thanks Jen

Do any knowledgeable Labour Party members know what the Labour Party think of this idea?

Many years ago, Citzen's Income was a Lib Dem policy, though it never got anywhere. Obviously.

Citizens will be voting for or against very soon here (in Switzerland) - just can't decide myself and really understand the pros and cons. Very hard work, albeit very interesting, this direct democracy (unlike the UK and most countries where citizens elect people to make the deicisions for them 99% of the time).

I remember that annodomini; it was one of the things that attracted me to them at the time but the social democracy seems to leave the Lib Dems while in coalition and they are very much not my party now.

Granjura do you know what levels of payment they are suggesting and how that compares to incomes etc., I would be really interested in anything you can glean .

It does seem counter-intuitive but I can see many pluses. Just think if all citizens got a Citizen/basic pension of £155. Currently I think it is something like 40% of pensioners receive pension credit - just think of the savings on running just that benefit as it is at the moment.

Lots and lots to google out there on the Swiss vote. Including this one from the independent:

Switzerland will be the first country in the world to vote on having a national wage of £1,700 a month
The plan would cost the government around 208 billion Swiss francs a year (£143 billion)

Emma Henderson
Saturday 30 January 2016
22 comments

From the same article:

'56 per cent of those surveyed said the proposal will “never see the light of day”.'

Doesn't seem to be that much enthusiasm for the proposal from most Swiss people.

Agree, I do think it will be defeated. Point is that here people can force an issue to be voted on as a referendum or inittiative.

Daren't post a link right now- so will just copy and paste a short section- be free to ignore as you wish:

Popular votes

There are two kinds of popular vote. One can be seen as an accelerator, the other as a brake.

The accelerator is the popular initiative, which proposes an amendment to the constitution.

Its supporters have to gather a minimum of 100,000 signatures from voters within 18 months in order for the proposal to be put to a nationwide vote.

The brake is the optional referendum which can be called to challenge legislation passed by parliament.

Supporters have to collect at least 50,000 signatures within 100 days.

Legislation that changes the constitution, including making Switzerland a member of a supranational organisation, is subject to a mandatory referendum.

Although any Swiss voter can in theory try to call a vote, in practice they are normally initiated by interest groups and usually have the support of specific political parties.

Similar tools are available to voters at cantonal and communal levels.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/04/14/a-universal-basic-income-is-possible/

The Green Party, SNP and the Labour party are all looking into it.

www.basicincome.org/

There's a lot about it on this site, not just here but all over the world.

I have been reading - and commenting Jen, in fact I think I started this thread I was just interested in what the LP thought, if anything, about it.

John McDonnell started a group in parliament to discuss the basic universal income. I think it was called the people's parliament.
I do not know if it is still going now he is shadow chancellor.
However, the Labour party has set up a group to discuss the economy in a changing world, which includes various people who espouse the idea of a basic income. I think it's an ongoing debate still, Gracesgran.
He has discussions with Richard Murphy, from www.taxresearch.org.uk who supports the idea, along with green QE, although Murphy is not a member of the Labour Party. Have to say that because lots of people say he is because of his ideas.

Apparently there was a march of robots in support of the universal basic income in Switzerland.

Thanks Jen that's just what I wanted to know. I remember (quite a feat these days ) that Richard Murphy was in favour and I know they have been having lectures/seminars from various economists so a view may still be being formed. I shall watch with interest.

I am not sure if you are pulling our legs re the robots but it actually makes sense. We challenge them for jobs all the time currently but we cannot win in the long run and when that diminishes the number of jobs we will need to ensure people have enough to live on.

No, I wasn't, unless the website was.
www.basicincome.org/news/2016/04/zurich-switzerland-robots-march-for-universal-basic-income/

Did you read Shumacher's Small is Beautiful, where it said that when we have more leisure because machines will do more of the work, we will be able to share out the money to be able to use our leisure time. Hollow laugh now.

granjura I'm laying in bed and just read your post 16.49pm it made me laugh out loud.

What's the population of Switzerland, granjura?

There are petitions on the parliament website which have over 200,000 signatures, but which only have parliament saying we have discussed this petition. They do not vote on them, and they are often quite important - like the NHS.
Does that happen in Switzerland?

I hear my name popped up

not much to add to the thread..but lurking around (waves)

talking about Jobseekers a great many people also do not realise that Jobseekers is a "taxable" income, hence when you get your personal allowance if you start work etc, then the amount of Jobseekers you have had over that last the period of time counts towards your personal allowance.as income lol ....just another little hurdle

Jobseekers/basic income what ever fancy name they will call it, in the end you will never win! you will never gain, they will find a way of taking anything above what "they" say you need to live on away from you, be it 2 pence or £2.

The whole point is that Citizen's/Basic income is:

- unconditional. You do not get it because you are unemployed, nor is it dependant on the money you have, you get it because you are a citizen and you go on getting it whether you are in or out of work.

- it is automatic. If you are a citizen you would get it paid weekly or monthly.

- it is not withdrawable. It is not means tested. If your income increased you would continue to get it.

- it is individual. You get it regardless of your partners income, etc. It does not depend on what a couple or a household has; everyone gets the same.

- It is a right of citizenship. Legal residents, subject to a minimum period and continuing citizenship through most of the year will receive it.

So bikergran you would be getting it before you became unemployed, while you were unemployed and when you were back in employment. You would not have to sign on or do anything else to get it.